European DNA may have arrived first?

[Palerider]

Interesting article on a recent find in Alaska that points to white European DNA arriving early or even first in America. Unfortunately for Mormons this is all occurring approx. around 15-20 thousand b.c.

No sign of anyone building temples patterned after Solomon's.....

I've thought for a long time that there may have been multiple migrations to the Americas.

According to the article it also points to the distinct possibility that humans may have originated in Europe as opposed to Africa.

I'm wondering why there couldn't have been even two distinct originations; one in Europe and one in Africa. Or maybe even three if Asia were another possibility?

http://en.protothema.gr/scientists-disc ... ere-white/

[Hagoth]

This is interesting stuff. I haven't seen so much focus on Sunrise Child's "whiteness" before as in this article. We have known for a long time that there is ancient European DNA in some of the earliest Americans via Siberia. If you think of how quickly people spread throughout the Americas once they arrived it's not too hard to imagine it as a continuation of people diffusing across Asia and then across to Alaska and southward. I think it's very likely that there was a sea migration that might be in addition to the walking tour.

I'm already dreading the way the Meldrumites will abuse this information.

It's pretty certain that Neanderthals evolved from erectus-grade humans in Europe but I don't think there's any support for behaviorally modern human development outside of Africa. The first complex behavioral traits we have record of (e.g. symbolic art) are in Africa tens of thousands of years before it showed up in European caves. But who knows? The picture gets weirder and more complicated every day.

[jfro18]

It looks like this was posted around 8 months ago? Would be curious what geneticists make of it like Simon Southerton make of it, although again to believe this study you'd have to acknowledge that the Book of Mormon is still untrue since this happened long before and still leaves the BoM with all of the other issues that come with the DNA/population.

[Palerider]

I think it's very likely that there was a sea migration that might be in addition to the walking tour.

This seems to be supported in the story of Kennewick Man. He apparently looks much more Polynesian or ancient Japanese than Native American. But the migration would have been much earlier than ancestors of current Native Americans who came by land bridge.

That doesn't always sit well with Native Americans. Their story is that they didn't migrate from any other place and that they have always existed here. And they view any ancient human bone finds as being their direct tribal ancestors. Which would be an insult to say they were "white" with European dna, which may show the reluctance of some anthropologists to make that observation even though the science leads them there.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... 180952462/

[Palerider]

It looks like this was posted around 8 months ago? Would be curious what geneticists make of it like Simon Southerton make of it, although again to believe this study you'd have to acknowledge that the Book of Mormon is still untrue since this happened long before and still leaves the BoM with all of the other issues that come with the DNA/population.

Absolutely. This doesn't help BoM apologists at all. If anything it explains where some of the dna markers that they try desperately to cling to come from.

[Reuben]

It looks like this was posted around 8 months ago? Would be curious what geneticists make of it like Simon Southerton make of it, although again to believe this study you'd have to acknowledge that the Book of Mormon is still untrue since this happened long before and still leaves the BoM with all of the other issues that come with the DNA/population.

Absolutely. This doesn't help BoM apologists at all. If anything it explains where some of the dna markers that they try desperately to cling to come from.

They'll back off the details and take the general idea of multiple migrations as evidence of divinity. They'll say, "Look, science is finally catching up with Joseph Smith!" Or, "Multiple migrations, eh? Eh? Bet one was Lehi, wink wink."

[slavereeno]

They'll back off the details and take the general idea of multiple migrations as evidence of divinity. They'll say, "Look, science is finally catching up with Joseph Smith!" Or, "Multiple migrations, eh? Eh? Bet one was Lehi, wink wink."

And don't forget the tried-and-true "Look the DNA science is totally inconclusive. They are changing the story all the time. If we just wait and have faith, it will show that Joseph Smith was right in time!"

[Hagoth]

This seems to be supported in the story of Kennewick Man. He apparently looks much more Polynesian or ancient Japanese than Native American. But the migration would have been much earlier than ancestors of current Native Americans who came by land bridge.

Yes, his skull morphology looked like a Polynesian or Japanese Ainu skull to James Chatters when he first examined Kenniwick Man, which caused him to classify him as "caucasoid." This was a mistake that has caused all kinds of misdirections thanks to overzealous people like Book of Mormon Heartlanders and white supremacists. Chatters was also the main publisher many years later of the data for the 12,000+ year old Yucatan cave remains. It turns out that they had the same cranial characteristics that confused Chatters on Kennewick, but their DNA is fully Native American. The skull morphology thing appears to just be what Native Americans looked like thousands of years ago. Evolution. Researchers were finally able to get permission to collect and sequence Kennewick Man's DNA in 2015 and it turns out that he was a Native American related to the Yucatan people, but even more closely related to the Coleville tribe who live in the area where his remains were found:

https://www.nature.com/articles/nature14625


Most fascinating to me, when it comes to Book of Mormon DNA, is that the Meldrum gang claim Haplogroup X as conclusive evidence of Nephites but, oops, Kennewick Man also has Haplogroup X and he died 6000 years before Lehi's time.

[Palerider]

Researchers were finally able to get permission to collect and sequence Kennewick Man's DNA in 2015 and it turns out that he was a Native American related to the Yucatan people, but even more closely related to the Coleville tribe who live in the area where his remains were found:


Most fascinating to me, when it comes to Book of Mormon DNA, is that the Meldrum gang claim Haplogroup X as conclusive evidence of Nephites but, oops, Kennewick Man also has Haplogroup X and he died 6000 years before Lehi's time.

Ah, so I've been reading old material. I thought they hadn't been allowed to study Kennewick's DNA yet. So he was native.

I learn something new every time I come here.

[Hagoth]

Ah, so I've been reading old material.

You and just about everybody else. It was in court for something like 12 years and far more speculation was generated than followup reporting. It didn't fit anybody's alternative speculations, so they either dropped it and moved on or, as in the case of the Heartlanders Haplogroup X claims, ignored it so they could keep spouting their claims as if no new information had emerged.

The Coleville tribe, who claimed Kennewick Man as their own fought a long battle to avoid the possibility that "The Ancient One" might not turn out to be what they said he was, but in the end they were vindicated anyway. The entire site has now been paved over with concrete to discourage anyone from looking for more evidence there.

[moksha]

Long a companion of the Dragonborn, Vilja Dovahkiin of Solstheim fought valiantly at his side to defeat Alduin and put an end to the Imperial dominance of Skyrim. They were later married and she was buried alongside him in a barrow protected by Draugr lords and wights. These are her unearthed remains.


Vilja in younger days