WoW pisses me off!

[Rob4Hope]

Wheat today isn't the same plant that was grown even 200 years ago, much less five thousand. It has been hybridized and gmo'ed up the whazoo till it carries more gluten than it ever would have naturally.

GMO is frightening to me--the whole idea. And also having beurocrats who listen to propagandized bunk science and forcing everyone to use fluoridated water.....just to name one of many issues.....

[wtfluff]

Wheat today isn't the same plant that was grown even 200 years ago, much less five thousand. It has been hybridized and gmo'ed up the whazoo till it carries more gluten than it ever would have naturally.

Do you have any references to back this statement up?

GMO is frightening to me--the whole idea. And also having beurocrats who listen to propagandized bunk science and forcing everyone to use fluoridated water.....just to name one of many issues.....

Like Pale mentioned: Unless you're more than 200 years old, pretty much all of the food you've eaten in your entire life that came from a farm was / is modified some how.

There are too many humans on earth starving right now. If it weren't for science making it so we can grow more food in less space, with the arable land we have, a lot more folks would be starving.

[Palerider]

Wheat today isn't the same plant that was grown even 200 years ago, much less five thousand. It has been hybridized and gmo'ed up the whazoo till it carries more gluten than it ever would have naturally.

Do you have any references to back this statement up?

So, I looked into this a bit more closely and it seems that a number of slow deliberate changes in the domestication of wheat have taken place over the past 10,000 years. Most of them done by "selection" of desirable traits. The biggest occurring in the 50's and 60's when wheat was actually hybridized on a more scientific scale for an increase in yield. It may be considered a crude form of GMO. See the wiki quote.

Real GMO'ed wheat has taken place recently and is being tested on the market in the UK but not in the U.S.

To be clear, I wasn't blaming the current health and diet ills in America directly on wheat. More just making an observation. Pros and cons can be found all over the internet.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/mo ... -nightmare

Some look more backed by science than others.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat

"Wheat has also been the subject of mutation breeding, with the use of gamma, x-rays, ultraviolet light, and sometimes harsh chemicals. The varieties of wheat created through these methods are in the hundreds (going as far back as 1960), more of them being created in higher populated countries such as China.[54] Bread wheat with high grain iron and zinc content was developed through gamma radiation breeding.[55] Modern bread wheat varieties have been cross-bred to contain greater amounts of gluten,[56] which affords significant advantages for improving the quality of breads and pastas from a functional point of view."

[Rob4Hope]

There are too many humans on earth starving right now. If it weren't for science making it so we can grow more food in less space, with the arable land we have, a lot more folks would be starving.

I hear what you're saying, but I'm not sure I agree. If feeding people were really the agenda, then farmers wouldn't be paid to plow their crops under. There is a LOT of that going on.

I've also heard that yield per acre of land is minimized severely with cattle farming; however, if you farm soybeans, for example, the yield of protein per acre is magnified greatly. So, point is -- cattle farming is not nearly as efficient for producing food yield, and is an example of where choice trumps actually feeing people.

I could be persuaded otherwise, but at this point I'm leaning toward believing the goal is NOT to feed people, but to control food production and also price controls. Its microcosmic to the LDS perspective. The church, for example, isn't interested in feeding people as a priority--TITHING comes first, even if you go hungry or can't purchase the medications you need. "Pray, pay, obey"...in that order,...and 'eat' may be on that list somewhere...

Make sense?

[wtfluff]

Make sense?

If you're into conspiracy theories, it absolutely makes sense!

(We know each other well enough that I can sarcastically poke you, right Rob? )

[Rob4Hope]

Make sense?

If you're into conspiracy theories, it absolutely makes sense!

(We know each other well enough that I can sarcastically poke you, right Rob? )

Oh....I'm fine.

Something else that actually is more-or-less conspiracy driven (depending on what you define a conspiracy) is pharmaceuticals. For example, there is a drug called XYREM that costs about $1.00 to mix a batch. Its scheduled and used for sleeping problems. The company who sells it markets it for over $4,000 a month.

Why do they do that? Because they have a monopoly and they can--no one can stop them. So, when it comes down to really growing food to feed people, or growing food to make money?...if these things were choices, which do you think would happen?

The cost for Xyrem oral liquid (500 mg/mL) is around $4,829 for a supply of 180 milliliters, depending on the pharmacy you visit. Prices are for cash paying customers only and are not valid with insurance plans.

[wtfluff]

So, when it comes down to really growing food to feed people, or growing food to make money?...if these things were choices, which do you think would happen?

Your original statement was:

GMO is frightening to me--the whole idea.

I stated that you shouldn't fear that GMO's are "bad for you" because you've been eating them your whole life, and that GMO's allow us to grow more food in less space.

As far as growing food to feed people vs. growing food to make money? That seems to me to be more related to economics and capitalism, than it is to "GMO's are bad!"

[Raylan Givens]

My opinion is that the WoW became commandment because BY realized the people would.probably starve or be bankrupt if they kept importing (coffee, tea, tobacco and alcohol) into the valley.

It did save me money. My roommates would live off Ramen and Pb&j after a long weekend.

It was more about $$$ and not starving than anything else. BY certainly had no problem using his own stills (without overdoing it of course).

[Raylan Givens]

Coffee put my autoimmune disease into remission. Wine seems to be making my smile lines vanish. I drink both most days. I think my whole adult life would have been better with them in my life.

I haven't been able to get into coffee, even with time. Wine and beer are okay- but don't excite me.

I followed the Churches teaching of eating and drinking lots of sugar, because coffee and beer are bad.

I think it has ruined my taste buds for anything but sugar/fake sugar water.

[Rob4Hope]

My opinion is that the WoW became commandment because BY realized the people would.probably starve or be bankrupt if they kept importing (coffee, tea, tobacco and alcohol) into the valley.

It did save me money. My roommates would live off Ramen and Pb&j after a long weekend.

It was more about $$$ and not starving than anything else. BY certainly had no problem using his own stills (without overdoing it of course).

Old BY did a LOT of liquor production. Don't let anyone fool you. There was, if I recollect, a podcast on the Willie & Martin Handcart Company rescue where old Brigham was more interested in his shipment of liquor and his steam engine than he was about saving those people's lives. Google it...it was MIND blowing...

[Rob4Hope]

So, when it comes down to really growing food to feed people, or growing food to make money?...if these things were choices, which do you think would happen?

Your original statement was:

GMO is frightening to me--the whole idea.

I stated that you shouldn't fear that GMO's are "bad for you" because you've been eating them your whole life, and that GMO's allow us to grow more food in less space.

As far as growing food to feed people vs. growing food to make money? That seems to me to be more related to economics and capitalism, than it is to "GMO's are bad!"

Oh,..thanks for clarifying Fluff. I think I did misunderstand.

GMO still freaks me out, but its what we eat. So, I get the point.

[Rob4Hope]

The journal Heart published the finding of reduced coronary artery calcium scores in men and women with a moderate daily intake of coffee in comparison with those who abstained from the beverage.*

The current investigation included 25,138 participants in the Kangbuk Samsung Health Study, which involved men and women who received comprehensive examinations yearly or every other year at one of two Korean health care centers. Subjects in the current study were limited to those without cardiovascular disease. Dietary questionnaire responses provided data on coffee intake. Participants underwent cardiac computed tomography scans for coronary artery calcium scoring between 2011 and 2013.

Consuming one to less than three cups coffee per day was associated with an adjusted 13% lower risk of detectable coronary artery calcium in comparison with those who drank no coffee, and the intake of three to less than five cups was associated with a 40% lower risk. * Heart. 2015 May 1;101(9):686-91

yeh yeh yeh....

WoW takes another slap across the face....

[Rob4Hope]

A presentation at the American Academy of Neurology’s 67th Annual Meeting revealed a protective effect for coffee drinking against the risk of developing multiple sclerosis (MS), a progressive disease of the nervous system.*

Ellen Mowry, MD, MCR, and colleagues evaluated data from two case-control studies, conducted in Sweden and the United States. The Swedish study compared 1,629 individuals with MS to 2,807 subjects without the disease, and the American study included 584 MS patients and 581 controls. The amount of coffee consumed one, five, or 10 years before diagnosis was ascertained among those with the disease, and was compared to the intake of those without MS during a similar time period.

The researchers observed a 33% lower risk of MS among subjects who consumed at least six cups coffee per day the year before diagnosis in comparison with those who did not consume coffee at the same point in time.

Editor’s Note: In the US study, drinking four cups or more per day was associated with a similar benefit. High intake of coffee five or 10 years prior to diagnosis was also associated with significant protection.

Reference
* 2015 Apr 18-25. American Academy of Neurology’s 67th Annual Meeting, Washington, DC.

Gees....this is TOOOOOO easy.

[Random]

Wheat today isn't the same plant that was grown even 200 years ago, much less five thousand.

This is so true. Some years ago, an acquaintance sent me an article about how it had been changed over the years. I hadn't know all that before. It was a bit shocking to me. (I don't have the article now. I did use it for a blog post, but that was so long ago . . . )

[Random]

The WoW dictates ideals, and then Brigham Young (or whoever) came along and made it 'required'. And there we are.

Heber Grant was the one who made it mandatory. I understand his stepfather (father?) was an alcoholic, and I'm sure that was a big factor in why he did it.

[Random]

Rob, I'm not going to drink 4 or 5 cups of coffee a day, but I do drink coffee 3-4 times a week (I'd drink it every day, but am not interested in the headache that comes if I'd miss a day) for health benefits. Specifically my brain and neural pathways.

And thanks for posting those studies.

[wtfluff]

Wheat today isn't the same plant that was grown even 200 years ago, much less five thousand.

This is so true. Some years ago, an acquaintance sent me an article about how it had been changed over the years. I hadn't know all that before. It was a bit shocking to me. (I don't have the article now. I did use it for a blog post, but that was so long ago . . . )

Wheat, corn, carrots, peas... In fact everything that humans grow on farms has changed dramatically over the last 200 years.

Farming in and of it'self is not "natural."

It's what humans have done to survive. "Change" is not automatically equal to "bad."

[Random]

"Change" is not automatically equal to "bad."

Hm. You're probably right.

But what they did to wheat seemed pretty heinous. For example, wheat is "triple cleaned" to try to get enough of the poison off it so that humans can consume it without getting sick.

[Rob4Hope]

When Israeli researchers gave either red or white wine to a group of healthy men for two weeks, they found that lipid peroxidation in plasma dropped by 20% in those who consumed red wine.

Aviram M, Lavy A, Fuhrman B. Plasma lipid peroxidation: inhibited by drinking red wine but stimulated by white wine. Harefuah.1994 Dec 15;127(12):517-20, 575-6.

Oh GEES!.....REALLY!?.....you mean Red Wine is heart healthy and actually helps prevent stroke/heart problems?

Ooops. I guess the WoW got that wrong....

Or is red wine a 'mild drink'?