Church to allow baptisms, blessings for children of LGBT parents, updates handbook regarding 'apostasy'

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AllieOop
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Church to allow baptisms, blessings for children of LGBT parents, updates handbook regarding 'apostasy'

Post by AllieOop » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:15 am

https://www.ksl.com/article/46524616/ch ... g-apostasy

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900 ... stasy.html
Children of parents who identify themselves as lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender may now be blessed as infants and later baptized as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, according to updates announced Thursday to November 2015 church policies intended at the time to maintain family harmony but perceived as painful among some supporters of the LGBT community.

The church also will update its handbook of instructions for leaders to remove the label of apostasy for homosexual behavior that also was applied in November 2015, said President Dallin H. Oaks, first counselor in the First Presidency, who announced the changes on behalf of the First Presidency on Thursday morning during the leadership session of the church’s 189th Annual General Conference.
"There came a time when the desire to know the truth about the church became stronger than the desire to know the church was true."

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MoPag
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Re: Church to allow baptisms, blessings for children of LGBT parents, updates handbook regarding 'apostasy'

Post by MoPag » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:24 am

So happy this happened!

I can't wait to see how they spin the "it was a revelation'' thing.
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believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

Kishkumen
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Re: Church to allow baptisms, blessings for children of LGBT parents, updates handbook regarding 'apostasy'

Post by Kishkumen » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:26 am

As usual, the comments section of KSL for news stories like these are priceless.



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MoPag
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Re: Church to allow baptisms, blessings for children of LGBT parents, updates handbook regarding 'apostasy'

Post by MoPag » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:33 am

Kishkumen wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:26 am
As usual, the comments section of KSL for news stories like these are priceless.
:lol: The mental gymnastics there are making me dizzy.
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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Re: Church to allow baptisms, blessings for children of LGBT parents, updates handbook regarding 'apostasy'

Post by Hagoth » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:37 am

Just checking. This didn't happen on April 1st, right?
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Red Ryder
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Re: Church to allow baptisms, blessings for children of LGBT parents, updates handbook regarding 'apostasy'

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:38 am

This means RMN is not healthy and has a poor chance of living another year.

Oaks is positioning himself to take over the throne, marry Wendy, and plan his world religious dominance. Right after changing the name of the church back to Mormon!

Oaks is still a douche bag.
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Re: Church to allow baptisms, blessings for children of LGBT parents, updates handbook regarding 'apostasy'

Post by jfro18 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:41 am

Man God sure bows to the will of social pressure, doesn't he?

Happy for the LGBT members who have struggled unnecessarily for 3+ years... trying to wrap my head around how any member could not see right through what is happening before their very eyes with this.

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Re: Church to allow baptisms, blessings for children of LGBT parents, updates handbook regarding 'apostasy'

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:45 am

The amount of mental gymnastics involved in justifying this reversal is going to be hard on orthodox members and that makes me smile.

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MoPag
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Re: Church to allow baptisms, blessings for children of LGBT parents, updates handbook regarding 'apostasy'

Post by MoPag » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:46 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:38 am

Oaks is still a douche bag.
^^Yep!!!^^^
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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Re: Church to allow baptisms, blessings for children of LGBT parents, updates handbook regarding 'apostasy'

Post by jfro18 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:50 am

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:45 am
The amount of mental gymnastics involved in justifying this reversal is going to be hard on orthodox members and that makes me smile.
That's my thought too... there's just no way to reconcile this in any way that doesn't end with "these guys are just making it up as they go along."

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Re: Church to allow baptisms, blessings for children of LGBT parents, updates handbook regarding 'apostasy'

Post by wtfluff » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:52 am

Wow. I'm truly shocked they actually did something right!

Is there any actual video of Oaks making this announcement? I can imagine how forced it must have been. I'm truly happy that they likely forced Oaks to make the announcement. His blatant bigotry in the past is sickening.

I'm curious as to why Elohim changed his mind? Are they going to retroactively reinstate all the folks they excommunicated over the last 3 years? How 'bout an apology? [SHUDDER] :shock: How many bishops are going to be angry that they followed the hate-policy for 3 years, and now they learn that it was wrong?

Yes, I keep editing to add... So many thoughts popping into my fluffy brain: I'd also like to know how Christofferson feels about being trotted in front of the cameras to justify the hate-policy when they came out with it?
Last edited by wtfluff on Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Church to allow baptisms, blessings for children of LGBT parents, updates handbook regarding 'apostasy'

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:54 am

wtfluff wrote:Wow. I'm truly shocked they actually did something right! Is there any actual video of Oaks making this announcement? I can imagine how forced it must have been. I'm truly happy that they likely forced Oaks to make the announcement. His blatant bigotry in the past is sickening.

I'm curious as to why Elohim changed his mind? Are they going to retroactively reinstate all the folks they excommunicated over the last 3 years? How 'bout an apology? [SHUDDER] :shock:
This certainly does seem like a form of organizational punishment for Oak's damaging rhetoric. What a slap to the face!

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oliblish
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Re: Church to allow baptisms, blessings for children of LGBT parents, updates handbook regarding 'apostasy'

Post by oliblish » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:01 am

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:45 am
The amount of mental gymnastics involved in justifying this reversal is going to be hard on orthodox members and that makes me smile.
The apologists over on the Mormon Dialogue board who were vigorously defending the policy for the last 3 years as a way to protect children have been pretty quiet in the threads over there. I am sure they will eventually figure out a way to twist their brains into pretzels and justify the latest change as well...
Stands next to Kolob, called by the Egyptians Oliblish, which is the next grand governing creation near to the celestial or the place where God resides; holding the key of power also, pertaining to other planets; as revealed from God to Abraham

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Re: Church to allow baptisms, blessings for children of LGBT parents, updates handbook regarding 'apostasy'

Post by Mormorrisey » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:11 am

jfro18 wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:50 am
FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:45 am
The amount of mental gymnastics involved in justifying this reversal is going to be hard on orthodox members and that makes me smile.
That's my thought too... there's just no way to reconcile this in any way that doesn't end with "these guys are just making it up as they go along."
I think Hagoth mentioned it on another post, but the POX was REVELATION, wasn't it? So God changed his mind three and a half years later? What gives? My goodness, this is just crazy. I'm so glad I got off this train of stupid.

I'm glad they did the right thing, but it's a day late and a dollar short, like the temple changes. I don't think it will stop the outflow of members, though.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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wtfluff
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Re: Church to allow baptisms, blessings for children of LGBT parents, updates handbook regarding 'apostasy'

Post by wtfluff » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:13 am

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:54 am
wtfluff wrote:Wow. I'm truly shocked they actually did something right! Is there any actual video of Oaks making this announcement? I can imagine how forced it must have been. I'm truly happy that they likely forced Oaks to make the announcement. His blatant bigotry in the past is sickening.

I'm curious as to why Elohim changed his mind? Are they going to retroactively reinstate all the folks they excommunicated over the last 3 years? How 'bout an apology? [SHUDDER] :shock:
This certainly does seem like a form of organizational punishment for Oak's damaging rhetoric. What a slap to the face!
Well... Let's see what happens this weekend. I won't be surprised at all if he gives some sort of speech verifying that even though Elohim changed his mind, we still need to hate everyone who is different than Oaks.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

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no1saint
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Re: Church to allow baptisms, blessings for children of LGBT parents, updates handbook regarding 'apostasy'

Post by no1saint » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:16 am

It’s weird they included all people who are not of the Church as well, does this cover polygamists as well? The wording is almost a threat, “ an ordinance that places the child's name on formal church records and triggers a lifelong series of church contact, would mean congregation members will contact them periodically and propose baptism when the child turns 8.“ lol

In all seriousness though, how bad had the member/money bleed been if this “policy” change needed to be done? Dumb f^*ks caused so much anguish over this, and then do a sneaky closed session announcement with a press release announcing a significant change. Get f**ked! This should have been a public announcement by Oaks in the first session! Assholes!
Last edited by no1saint on Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Church to allow baptisms, blessings for children of LGBT parents, updates handbook regarding 'apostasy'

Post by moksha » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:17 am

AllieOop wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:15 am
Children of parents who identify themselves as lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender may now be blessed as infants and later baptized as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, according to updates announced Thursday to November 2015 church policies intended at the time to maintain family harmony but perceived as painful among some supporters of the LGBT community.

The church also will update its handbook of instructions for leaders to remove the label of apostasy for homosexual behavior that also was applied in November 2015, said President Dallin H. Oaks, first counselor in the First Presidency, who announced the changes on behalf of the First Presidency on Thursday morning during the leadership session of the church’s 189th Annual General Conference.
A couple of months after this dreadful policy, in January 2016, Elder Russell M. Nelson declared the dreadful policy to be a direct revelation received by ailing President Monson. So this would be another "guess God changed his mind on the revelation" and so the Brethren are blameless for a horrendously bad policy.

If the Brethren are now willing to put away their brimstone and pitchforks and are willing to adopt a Christian attitude on this issue then more power to them.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
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Re: Church to allow baptisms, blessings for children of LGBT parents, updates handbook regarding 'apostasy'

Post by BriansThoughtMirror » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:20 am

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:31 am
God sure changes his mind a lot, especially after bad PR and public backlash.
HAHAHAHA! Yep.
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