Have any of you considered Catholicism?

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misterfake371
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Have any of you considered Catholicism?

Post by misterfake371 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:06 pm

Ever since the Notre Dame cathedral caught on fire, I've been researching Catholicism a lot more. I listen to Catholic radio on my commute to and from work, and I really like it. It seems like they have the smartest Christians around. And they have so much history and they've been caretakers of the relics like the crown of thorns and the shroud of Turin. (By the way, I am a total believer in the Shroud of Turin! I believe in the literal Resurrection!) Have any of you gone to mass or become Catholic or anything like that?
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. Ecclesiastes 12:13

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Palerider
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Re: Have any of you considered Catholicism?

Post by Palerider » Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:22 pm

I like the more reverent approach Catholics have to their masses. I think the Mormons could use a big dose of that in their sacrament meetings.

But the celibacy doctrines for priests and nuns is just uncalled for. Especially in light of recent sex scandals. The cover-ups remind me of the Mormons.

I know they do a lot of charitable work which is admirable. Don't think I could get there as a member though. I couldn't join any church at this point.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

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dogbite
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Re: Have any of you considered Catholicism?

Post by dogbite » Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:04 pm

No. the reasons I don't believe also affect Catholicism.

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Hagoth
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Re: Have any of you considered Catholicism?

Post by Hagoth » Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:10 pm

I can see how ceremony and ritual can be very appealing to some people, and it does feel like it has a great deal more gravity than a pimply-faced youn American upstart like Mormonism. And, of course, it does have actual theologians.

The biggest problem I have with religion is that it provides a platform for some people to pretend they are more important and closer to God than other people. It seems to me that Catholicism excels in that, although it has been slowly correcting itself. I'll check back in another century or two.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

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Phil Lurkerman
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Re: Have any of you considered Catholicism?

Post by Phil Lurkerman » Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:40 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:10 pm
I can see how ceremony and ritual can be very appealing to some people, and it does feel like it has a great deal more gravity than a pimply-faced youn American upstart like Mormonism. And, of course, it does have actual theologians.

The biggest problem I have with religion is that it provides a platform for some people to pretend they are more important and closer to God than other people. It seems to me that Catholicism excels in that, although it has been slowly correcting itself. I'll check back in another century or two.
As Hagoth notes, there are some interesting elements to the ceremony aspect of Catholicism. I can understand why that kind of worship might be attractive - it has a sort-of ancient feel to it that provides a sense of connection across the millennia. I enjoy listening to various forms of monastic chant traditions for that very reason.

That said, I don't believe any religion is literally true. There just isn't evidence to support the claims and no particular reason to believe that an omniscient being would privilege one belief system over another.
I was once a cafeteria Mormon on a hunger strike. Have since found a buffet elsewhere.

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moksha
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Re: Have any of you considered Catholicism?

Post by moksha » Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:06 am

I've been to Mass on a number of occasions. Attending Mass is probably is the best way to spend midnight on Christmas Eve provided the roads are not too slippery (only consider this if you are young and carefree or have a reliable babysitter).

I've noticed that in Elders Quorum we occasionally talk of other faiths without a true inkling of understanding anything about them. Consequently, we get things wrong. Visiting the services of other churches is a sure fired way to increase our understanding and improve our love of the "others" Jesus talked about. Please don't let any cult-like misapprehensions stop you active members in reaching out and extending your understanding of others.

One thing worth noting is that Catholicism is the "faith of our fathers" for anyone of European descent. If you are from the British Isles then perhaps even earlier ancestors painted themselves blue for religious observances. That would certainly have been interesting to see.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

misterfake371
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Re: Have any of you considered Catholicism?

Post by misterfake371 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:03 am

Palerider wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:22 pm

But the celibacy doctrines for priests and nuns is just uncalled for. Especially in light of recent sex scandals. The cover-ups remind me of the Mormons.
Yeah, the sex scandals are horrible. But there are a lot of horrible things that go on in other denominations, too. And I think the media has overblown the Catholic sex abuse thing. I've got to believe that most of the Catholic clergy keep their vows of celibacy.

But yeah, the celibacy thing for clergy is one of the Catholic practices that I would have a hard time believing in or supporting. I think considering human nature, it's healthier to get in a monogamous relationship.

But here's something I wonder about Catholicism: do Catholics have to believe everything the Catholic Church teaches? I don't think they do. About half of them don't believe in the Real Presence (transubstantiation). Let me tell you, the major thing drawing me to Catholicism right now is... FREEDOM! Like... Catholics are free to talk about things and even believe certain things... whereas in the LDS Church, we have to get that temple recommend, and we have to quack like all the other ducks.

I have a Catholic coworker, and a few years back I asked her what she thought of Pope Francis, and she said, "Oh, at first I didn't like him, but... I'm kinda warming up to him now. I think he's a good man." Her response was so refreshing. Whenever we get a new Prophet/President, we all have to say, "He is the Lord's anointed! He's been spared for the last days! He's so awesome and amazing and wonderful and fantastic!" I've also heard Catholics on conservative talk radio (It was Bill Bennet talking on the Hugh Hewitt show, if I remember correctly) criticize Pope Francis and calling for the resignation of some Bishop for his role in the sex abuse coverups. And no one is gonna excommunicate them for criticizing church leaders! I feel like in Mormonism, I can't say anything negative about any church leader, ever.
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. Ecclesiastes 12:13

misterfake371
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Re: Have any of you considered Catholicism?

Post by misterfake371 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:10 am

Hagoth wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:10 pm
I can see how ceremony and ritual can be very appealing to some people, and it does feel like it has a great deal more gravity than a pimply-faced youn American upstart like Mormonism. And, of course, it does have actual theologians.

The biggest problem I have with religion is that it provides a platform for some people to pretend they are more important and closer to God than other people.
Yeah, I like the ancient and grave feeling that Catholicism has. The traditional Latin mass is especially ancient and grave. I watched a YouTube video of a traditional Latin mass and it was mesmerizing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enWiFcsBqIE&t=2486s.

Uh... some people really are closer to God than other people are. Like, Mother Theresa and Hitler. Who's closer to God? Obviously Mother Theresa is.

I have no problem with kissing the ring of the Pope or kissing the feet of a yogi. That's the proper thing to do.
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. Ecclesiastes 12:13

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Just This Guy
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Re: Have any of you considered Catholicism?

Post by Just This Guy » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:42 am

dogbite wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:04 pm
No. the reasons I don't believe also affect Catholicism.

Pretty much the same for me. Once you look at Mormonism with a critical eye, you can apply the same skills to all other religions and find the same total lack of historical proof from objective sources.

I have been to Catholic mass. I do find Episcopalian to be very similar to Catholicism, especially when it comes to the ritual side of things. They are more progressive in theology and social issues. Basically they are Catholicism without the baggage.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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Not Buying It
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Re: Have any of you considered Catholicism?

Post by Not Buying It » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:48 am

Never have. One of my issues with the Church is that my wife and daughters will never be treated as equal to men - Catholicism is no improvement in that regard. You also have the problem in Catholicism of leaders who claim to speak for God who contradict each other. It’s got many of the same hang ups as Mormonism.

I’m done believing anyone else has a special link to God that I can’t have, I’m going to cut out the middleman. I will never again believe in an organized religion - if any of them really are God’s religion, God has done a terrible job of letting us know which one it is.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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Palerider
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Re: Have any of you considered Catholicism?

Post by Palerider » Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:02 am

Not Buying It wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:48 am

I’m done believing anyone else has a special link to God that I can’t have, I’m going to cut out the middleman. I will never again believe in an organized religion.....
👍

Unless Christ himself were here on Earth and corporally at the head of the church. Then I would join.

I believe that the Kingdom currently is in amorphous form, existing only in the hearts of believers. It will remain that way until Christ comes to make it different.

Luke 17: 20-21

"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

orangganjil
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Re: Have any of you considered Catholicism?

Post by orangganjil » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:20 pm

You could try the Episcopal Church, which has the liturgies (consensus is that the Episcopal Church has maintained the old liturgies better than have the Roman church, especially after the changes Rome made to the liturgy in the 1960s); better music; fully affirming of LGBT (including marriage and full ordination); ordains women to all levels; doesn't think the church is infallible; accepts the Anglican "three-legged stool" of scripture, tradition, and reason; clergy are usually married; etc.

https://episcopalchurch.org

In my view, the Episcopal Church is trying to do Christianity the right way, holding onto what matters and continuing the liturgy, without fundamentalism and with a focus on one's relationship with God and neighbor. It's a tradition which can hold together NT Wright and Marcus Borg with no problem whatsoever. I recommend checking out their material.

There was also a good podcast recently at Gina Colvin's "A Thoughtful Faith" about LDS and the Episcopal Church:
https://www.athoughtfulfaith.org/280-a- ... ody-hatch/

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wtfluff
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Re: Have any of you considered Catholicism?

Post by wtfluff » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:49 pm

Considered? Nope.

I've participated in a Christmas Eve mass before, so I guess if I could keep the same amount of participation, I'd be ok? (A midnight mass once every 10-20 years, and absolutely no other time or money commitments. :D )


Yet... I have the same issues with any organized religion that everyone else has mentioned in this thread, so I don't think I'll be applying any time soon.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

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Mad Jax
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Re: Have any of you considered Catholicism?

Post by Mad Jax » Sun May 05, 2019 3:57 am

moksha wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:06 am
One thing worth noting is that Catholicism is the "faith of our fathers" for anyone of European descent. If you are from the British Isles then perhaps even earlier ancestors painted themselves blue for religious observances. That would certainly have been interesting to see.
Nordic paganism is the faith of my fathers. I find it a fascinating thing to study and to see its influence today. I may have posted this before, but it opened up a lot about the influence of Yule and made me see how much more I like it than the bastardized commercial version of Christmas that exists nowadays.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzB1Pob0yNE&t=3s
Free will is a golden thread flowing through the matrix of fixed events.

DennisTate
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Re: Have any of you considered Catholicism?

Post by DennisTate » Fri May 10, 2019 7:08 am

misterfake371 wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:06 pm
Ever since the Notre Dame cathedral caught on fire, I've been researching Catholicism a lot more. I listen to Catholic radio on my commute to and from work, and I really like it. It seems like they have the smartest Christians around. And they have so much history and they've been caretakers of the relics like the crown of thorns and the shroud of Turin. (By the way, I am a total believer in the Shroud of Turin! I believe in the literal Resurrection!) Have any of you gone to mass or become Catholic or anything like that?
The Roman Catholic idea of Purgatory does seem to correspond somewht with what some near death experiencers are reporting.

Latter day Saints and Roman Catholics are two of the most likely groups of Christians to take NDE accounts seriously.

I think that it would be easier for me personally though to become full fledged Jewish.... rather than Roman Catholic... due to the possible correspondence between Matthew chapter 5 with the NDE of Rabbi Alon Anava??? (I am not yet LDS, I term myself Messianic Gentile).

Wonderment
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Re: Have any of you considered Catholicism?

Post by Wonderment » Fri May 10, 2019 11:58 pm

One of my issues with the Church is that my wife and daughters will never be treated as equal to men - Catholicism is no improvement in that regard. You also have the problem in Catholicism of leaders who claim to speak for God who contradict each other. It’s got many of the same hang ups as Mormonism.
At a glance, Catholicism seems more liberal and open-minded than Mormonism, because Catholics are free to question their leaders. However, like Mormonism, it is actually a high demand religion with very strict doctrines.

Like Mormonism, women are assigned a lesser role than men, as women are not allowed to hold the priesthood; and the governing hierarchy is all male. Like Mormonism, the Roman Catholic church is patriarchal.

Birth control and contraceptives are forbidden, and large families are encouraged. Like Mormonism, pre-marital sex is a sin, pornography is a sin, and abortion is a mortal sin. Sexual activity is highly restricted and regulated.

Like Mormonism, confession of sins to a clergy member is strongly encouraged, and penitence will be assigned.

Like Mormonism, imposing guilt and shame on the congregation is freely done. In Catholicism, a rigidly anthropomorphic religion, the dying Jesus is prominently displayed on the cross, and stations of the cross, depicting the agony and suffering of Christ as he died, are posted on the walls of the church. As a Catholic, you will be constantly reminded that your sins killed Jesus and caused his suffering, and you will be eternally judged for causing that suffering. Every sin you commit is another nail driven into Jesus as he writhes in agony on the cross. Only by drinking his blood and by eating his flesh ( and Catholics literally believe that the act of communion is one of drinking blood and eating flesh) can you be saved. Salvation and damnation are constant topics of homilies.

My son married a Catholic girl, and the church insists that their children will be raised Catholic. I've been to my share of Catholic masses. If you are thinking of it as a fun, easy-going dogma because it allows people to question and discuss the issues, IMO, that is mistaken. Yes, Christmas Eve is beautiful with all the candles and music, and so forth; but the church never hesitates to remind you that you were born a sinner, your life is a disappointment to Jesus, and if you do not attend mass each week and tithe to the church, you are causing literal pain to Jesus.
They are very much into original sin and the damnation that goes along with that.
Yes, the music and rituals can be entrancing and comforting, but both Catholicism and Mormonism have a strict orthodoxy with strict behavior rules for the members. -- Wndr.

Wonderment
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Re: Have any of you considered Catholicism?

Post by Wonderment » Fri May 10, 2019 11:59 pm

Never mind......

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Dravin
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Re: Have any of you considered Catholicism?

Post by Dravin » Sat May 11, 2019 6:53 am

dogbite wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:04 pm
No. the reasons I don't believe also affect Catholicism.
Yep, they run into the same issue all religions run into for me. It doesn't matter how entertaining or interesting they are or how much social good they do, at the end of the day membership is supposed to be built upon buying into their truth claims. Truth claims I can't buy into based on what they have to offer for support.
Hindsight is all well and good... until you trip.

Wonderment
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Re: Have any of you considered Catholicism?

Post by Wonderment » Sat May 11, 2019 3:09 pm

Yep, they run into the same issue all religions run into for me. It doesn't matter how entertaining or interesting they are or how much social good they do, at the end of the day membership is supposed to be built upon buying into their truth claims. Truth claims I can't buy into based on what they have to offer for support.
Yes. Agreed.

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