Thoughts on tithing

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1smartdodog
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Re: Thoughts on tithing

Post by 1smartdodog » Mon May 06, 2019 8:12 pm

I had this thought. Maybe the church’s tithing program gets ruled a ponzie scheme and they are ordered to pay it all back with interest.


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oliblish
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Re: Thoughts on tithing

Post by oliblish » Tue May 07, 2019 10:26 am

It really makes me sick thinking about tithing. I stopped paying several years ago, but before that I paid enough tithing that I could pay off my house and probably buy a Mercedes with what is left over.
But what really gets me is that my wife is still paying on her income. Actually that is fine, but I think she feels that she needs to overpay to make up for me. The last couple of years she has paid several thousand dollars in tithing above and beyond 10% of her gross. I called her out on it at the end of last year and told her to stop it. I think she should pull the over-payments forward to this year and subtract them from what she owes.
I thought she had agreed to that but just yesterday I got a receipt in my email showing that she has again started over paying tithing (probably already >$2000 extra for this year). I am not really sure how to handle this.
I have a couple of family members that could really use some financial help this year. I suggested that we could donate some money to them in lieu of fast offering payments. Of course she refused to do it.
It is so bizarre after you get a new perspective so see others so insistent on giving thousands of dollars to the church...
</rant>
Stands next to Kolob, called by the Egyptians Oliblish, which is the next grand governing creation near to the celestial or the place where God resides; holding the key of power also, pertaining to other planets; as revealed from God to Abraham

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slavereeno
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Re: Thoughts on tithing

Post by slavereeno » Wed May 08, 2019 1:40 pm

We rethought ours last year and adjusted down, but we still pay a lot. :cry:

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sunstoned
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Re: Thoughts on tithing

Post by sunstoned » Fri May 10, 2019 3:11 am

My thoughts on tithing is that I no longer think about it. When I stopped paying there was no negative calamities that happened because of the supposedly reduced blessing pipeline. If fact, the opposite was true.

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John G.
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Re: Thoughts on tithing

Post by John G. » Sat May 18, 2019 9:17 am

1smartdodog wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 8:12 pm
I had this thought. Maybe the church’s tithing program gets ruled a ponzie scheme and they are ordered to pay it all back with interest.


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Technically tithing is NOT a Ponzi scheme because it doesn’t pay new investors/members from tithing from old investors/members. Instead, it only promises the return on tithing through supernatural means (the windows of heaven will be opened) or only makes material, verifiable promises after you’re dead (go to the CK, be resurrected, become a god, get a planet, and be with your family forever).

Tithing could also be considered extortion because of the threats that misfortune will befall you if you don’t pay (fire insurance, etc.)
"If your children are taught untruths on evolution in the public schools or even in our Church schools, provide them with a copy of President Joseph Fielding Smith's excellent rebuttal in his book Man, His Origin and Destiny."

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w2mz
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Re: Thoughts on tithing

Post by w2mz » Sat May 18, 2019 8:03 pm

Tithing is one of the things that makes my blood boil. I’m one of the suckers who paid on gross my whole life. Once I found out the church is a sham, I tried to stop paying on my half of MY income and it nearly cost me my marriage. After a bitter disagreement TBM DW consented to pay on net, but not without her sense of integrity impacted. She feels like she’s cheating the lord.

She still pays an ungodly percent of our income to the f’ing church and it frustrates the hell out of me. I have to think of it as my marriage tax, or DWs expensive hobby. Otherwise I would go crazy.

As stated above, the money we’ve given the church would easily have paid off my mortgage, paid college tuition for my older kids, etc. it would have bought me peace of mind and security.

Instead I’m paying for the GA’s modest six figure stipend and for their posterity to go to BYU for free.

Gob damn it makes me mad. Too bad there isn’t a real hell that these old crooks could roast in for all eternity.
The church has engineered your eternal family into a commodity that can be purchased with an annual fee. The fact that full tithing payment is a requirement for saving ordinances is the biggest red flag imaginable. Hagoth

Mackman
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Re: Thoughts on tithing

Post by Mackman » Sun May 19, 2019 12:34 pm

I hope all the ole bastards go to hell !!! This is not what Jesus Christ had in mind . In the past I have literally starved over tithing. I believe there is a special place in hell for false prophets !!!!!

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Newme
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Re: Thoughts on tithing

Post by Newme » Tue May 21, 2019 9:51 am

Mackman wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 12:34 pm
I hope all the ole bastards go to hell !!! This is not what Jesus Christ had in mind . In the past I have literally starved over tithing. I believe there is a special place in hell for false prophets !!!!!
Yeah it seems there is. (Parable of the sheep & goats)

There are now more lds outside of the US & Canada. Many lds live in poor areas/countries (like Mexico, Brazil, Philippines, etc), & the church leaders’ corrupt tithing preaching likely indirectly contributes to starvation, disease and other suffering - including death.

This tithing corruption is the main issue I've told me son NOT to teach if he decides to serve a mission.

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Random
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Re: Thoughts on tithing

Post by Random » Mon May 27, 2019 11:08 pm

I used to be the kind of wife who would freak out if my spouse didn't pay tithing (or a full tithing), and I can see me doing something like this out of terror of offending God or going to hell, so I can identify with your wife. Unfortunately, I have no answers.

My path out of tithing began in earnest while I was reading a thread on LDSFF 6 or 7 years ago about tithing, and a poster from Sweden or the Netherlands (somewhere in that general area, where taxes are really high) laid out how it was mathematically impossible to pay 10% tithing there.
oliblish wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 10:26 am

But what really gets me is that my wife is still paying on her income. Actually that is fine, but I think she feels that she needs to overpay to make up for me. The last couple of years she has paid several thousand dollars in tithing above and beyond 10% of her gross. I called her out on it at the end of last year and told her to stop it. I think she should pull the over-payments forward to this year and subtract them from what she owes.
I thought she had agreed to that but just yesterday I got a receipt in my email showing that she has again started over paying tithing (probably already >$2000 extra for this year). I am not really sure how to handle this.
I have a couple of family members that could really use some financial help this year. I suggested that we could donate some money to them in lieu of fast offering payments. Of course she refused to do it.
It is so bizarre after you get a new perspective so see others so insistent on giving thousands of dollars to the church...
</rant>
There are 2 Gods. One who created us. The other you created. The God you made up is just like you-thrives on flattery-makes you live in fear.

Believe in the God who created us. And the God you created should be abolished.
PK

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Random
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Re: Thoughts on tithing

Post by Random » Mon May 27, 2019 11:33 pm

Mackman, I hear you! I never got the promised financial blessings, but I did get the promised financial punishments for not paying. And I believed in the promised blessings! Bottom line: I was obviously too wicked to be blessed with enough to eat, with enough to pay the bills. (I'm guessing I subconsciously tripped myself up when I didn't pay enough?)

When I finally realized what the tithing law really was (for the poor, in 99.9% of the scriptures about tithing), and that you shouldn't pay it if you didn't have it, (Book of Mormon: Give to the beggar, but if all you have is sufficient for your needs, for your day to day life, you don't have to give.) I was very, very angry. Boiling mad, actually.

At that time, we'd recently had to have a few church food orders, getting food we normally didn't eat in amounts we could not choose. (I thought I'd make one of those desserty things with jello and cottage cheese, since they required a meal plan along with the food list. They would only let me get one little container of cottage cheese, and gave me 4 packages of "jello" - When the stuff came and I saw the tiny container, I knew one package of "jello" would be overkill. One of my kids asked if they could have the cottage cheese. Since it was only 1 serving, realistically speaking, I let them have it. The "jello"? Lasted a year or two, I guess. Maybe longer. We didn't like jello.)

And come to find out that, according to God, I didn't have to pay that money! And if I had not, we could have gone to a grocery store and bought what we wanted to eat.

Sh***y way to do things, if you ask me.
Church: Give us your money, even if you can't buy food for yourself and your kids. We will then give you a food order that you have to earn, and we will limit what you can order, and make you feel stupid and inferior by requiring a conversation about finances and a month's meal plans.

To be fair, in another area, they didn't care how much we ordered - but I got food orders as rarely as I could.

I mean, think about it: To "avoid the evils of a dole" you have to do work for the Church for the help they give you, but do they do anything to earn the money I sacrificed my health to give them (I'm not talking about co-slaves helping me; I'm talking about the leaders who put the fear of hell into you if you don't give them money; you know, the ones who get half a million $ houses, lots of perks, and a "modest stipend", plus whatever they make as board members of the for-profit arms of the Church).

Yeah, I'm still kind of angry that I was so stupid and so suckered.
There are 2 Gods. One who created us. The other you created. The God you made up is just like you-thrives on flattery-makes you live in fear.

Believe in the God who created us. And the God you created should be abolished.
PK

Mackman
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Re: Thoughts on tithing

Post by Mackman » Wed May 29, 2019 3:52 pm

1 Timothy chapter 5 verse 8. Says it all. Just wish the top 15 guys would read it!!!!!

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moksha
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Re: Thoughts on tithing

Post by moksha » Wed May 29, 2019 7:26 pm

oliblish wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 10:26 am
I thought she had agreed to that but just yesterday I got a receipt in my email showing that she has again started overpaying tithing (probably already >$2000 extra for this year). I am not really sure how to handle this.
Do you suspect there may be elements of an obsessive-compulsive disorder going on here?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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græy
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Re: Thoughts on tithing

Post by græy » Thu May 30, 2019 8:53 am

moksha wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 7:26 pm
oliblish wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 10:26 am
I thought she had agreed to that but just yesterday I got a receipt in my email showing that she has again started overpaying tithing (probably already >$2000 extra for this year). I am not really sure how to handle this.
Do you suspect there may be elements of an obsessive-compulsive disorder going on here?
Or just a gold old-fashioned mormon guilt/shame and over-compensation complex.
Well, I'm better than dirt! Ah, well... most kinds of dirt; not that fancy store-bought dirt; that stuff is loaded with nutrients. I can't compete with that stuff. -Moe Sizlack

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redjay
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Re: Thoughts on tithing

Post by redjay » Thu May 30, 2019 12:51 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-47675301

The amount mormons pay to the church makes this /\ stuff look like pocket change. And the premise is no different.
At the halfway home. I'm a full-grown man. But I'm not afraid to cry.

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Random
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Re: Thoughts on tithing

Post by Random » Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:49 pm

Mackman wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 3:52 pm
1 Timothy chapter 5 verse 8. Says it all. Just wish the top 15 guys would read it!!!!!
Yes!
1 Timothy 5:8 King James Version (KJV)

8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

Biblegateway.com
There are 2 Gods. One who created us. The other you created. The God you made up is just like you-thrives on flattery-makes you live in fear.

Believe in the God who created us. And the God you created should be abolished.
PK

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Random
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Re: Thoughts on tithing

Post by Random » Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:55 pm

redjay wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 12:51 pm
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-47675301

The amount mormons pay to the church makes this /\ stuff look like pocket change. And the premise is no different.
Yep.



Holy crap!
While other tax-exempt organisations - notably charities - must at least fill in a basic form, known as the 990, churches don't have to. This means they are not required to detail their top employees' earnings or list how much is spent on philanthropic projects. Their inner workings can be entirely unknown.
There are 2 Gods. One who created us. The other you created. The God you made up is just like you-thrives on flattery-makes you live in fear.

Believe in the God who created us. And the God you created should be abolished.
PK

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Palerider
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Re: Thoughts on tithing

Post by Palerider » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:16 am

græy wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 8:53 am

Or just a gold old-fashioned mormon guilt/shame and over-compensation complex.
Oh yeah.... +1
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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oliblish
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Re: Thoughts on tithing

Post by oliblish » Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:35 pm

græy wrote:
moksha wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 7:26 pm
oliblish wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 10:26 am
I thought she had agreed to that but just yesterday I got a receipt in my email showing that she has again started overpaying tithing (probably already >$2000 extra for this year). I am not really sure how to handle this.
Do you suspect there may be elements of an obsessive-compulsive disorder going on here?
Or just a gold old-fashioned mormon guilt/shame and over-compensation complex.
I confronted her about this and it did not go well. I admit I did not handle it well. We have had other marital issues in addition to this. She brought up the D word and things have been pretty bad for the last week. She has been looking into what we could get if we sold our house. For the first time in over 25 years of marriage I am not sure we are going to make it.


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Stands next to Kolob, called by the Egyptians Oliblish, which is the next grand governing creation near to the celestial or the place where God resides; holding the key of power also, pertaining to other planets; as revealed from God to Abraham

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græy
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Re: Thoughts on tithing

Post by græy » Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:59 pm

oliblish wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:35 pm
I confronted her about this and it did not go well. I admit I did not handle it well. We have had other marital issues in addition to this. She brought up the D word and things have been pretty bad for the last week. She has been looking into what we could get if we sold our house. For the first time in over 25 years of marriage I am not sure we are going to make it.
Oh no, I'm sorry oliblish. That is the biggest fear I think most NOMs face. Have the two of you ever gone through therapy together? It can really help bridge the divide toward mutual understanding, but both of you need to be willing to work on it.
Well, I'm better than dirt! Ah, well... most kinds of dirt; not that fancy store-bought dirt; that stuff is loaded with nutrients. I can't compete with that stuff. -Moe Sizlack

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Linked
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Re: Thoughts on tithing

Post by Linked » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:48 am

oliblish wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:35 pm
græy wrote:
moksha wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 7:26 pm

Do you suspect there may be elements of an obsessive-compulsive disorder going on here?
Or just a gold old-fashioned mormon guilt/shame and over-compensation complex.
I confronted her about this and it did not go well. I admit I did not handle it well. We have had other marital issues in addition to this. She brought up the D word and things have been pretty bad for the last week. She has been looking into what we could get if we sold our house. For the first time in over 25 years of marriage I am not sure we are going to make it.


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Wow, I am sorry to hear it oliblish. Tithing kills love. Hang in there.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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