No more year wait for sealing after civil marriage!

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Palerider
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No more year wait for sealing after civil marriage!

Post by Palerider » Mon May 06, 2019 11:59 am

They are definitely calling this a change in "tradition and policy".

http://www.ldsliving.com/Church-Leaders ... dium=email

Which makes one wonder who's bright idea it was in the beginning or if it was the outgrowth of some doctrine.

Personally I think it was just leverage to get relatives paying their money to see their kindred be married and also meant to be punitive if they didn't.

"Too bad guys. As usual you (leadership) are a day late and a dollar short."
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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RubinHighlander
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Re: No more year wait for sealing after civil marriage!

Post by RubinHighlander » Mon May 06, 2019 12:14 pm

I can't believe RMN didn't claim revelation here. This would have been a fairly safe one, whereas the other policy/doctrines/programs he's been making the revelation claim on just make him look stupid!
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
--Douglas Adams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzmYP3PbfXE

Mormon 8
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Re: No more year wait for sealing after civil marriage!

Post by Mormon 8 » Mon May 06, 2019 12:17 pm

A rather interesting turn of events - for the last year or so the rumor was that the church was getting out of the marriage business altogether as a way to protect itself from ever having to do gay marriages but looks like that isn't on the radar yet, even though in every other country on the planet (except for the U.S. and Canada), couples have to get married civilly because there is no temple marriage. And here we have yet another example of an ever-changing God. :lol:
Last edited by Mormon 8 on Mon May 06, 2019 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jfro18
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Re: No more year wait for sealing after civil marriage!

Post by jfro18 » Mon May 06, 2019 12:19 pm

RubinHighlander wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 12:14 pm
I can't believe RMN didn't claim revelation here. This would have been a fairly safe one, whereas the other policy/doctrines/programs he's been making the revelation claim on just make him look stupid!
He still might.

Maybe he wants to make sure the reaction is good enough before jumping headfirst into revelation claims after shooting himself in the foot after the Nov 15 claim.

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Rob4Hope
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Re: No more year wait for sealing after civil marriage!

Post by Rob4Hope » Mon May 06, 2019 1:03 pm

This one was expected for a while, and finally it happens. What's sad is those who were hurt by the original policy. There was a lot of shame associated with that: "YOU should have gotten married IN THE TEMPLE!".....rhetoric.

Every now and then I have "oh wow!!!" moments. It happens when I take a moment and look around at how the world is changing under my feet. Here are a few examples:

1. Seeing a 64g jump-drive for sale in Safeway. I grew up watching Star Trek and thinking those communicators were freaking COOL! Now, I have a phone in my pocket that is more powerful than the computer that put Apollo into space! And, I once had a 40meg hard-drive on a 286 machine,..and I WAS A BADASS because of it!

Now jump-drives that would hold half a library...at Safeway? And those jump-drives have been there for a LONG time---this is not 'new news'.

2. Cars that drive themselves! I mean...that is OUT THERE!

3. Rocket ships that fly themselves back to their own landing pads and touch-down like a ballerina dancer, ready to be refueled and reused...

4. A creepy box that sits on the mantle and listens to conversations, answering when not spoken to, and calls itself Alexa.

And the one I never would have thought in a million years......the unraveling of the LDS church as it shifts to turn the tide of its hemorrhaging membership.

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RubinHighlander
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Re: No more year wait for sealing after civil marriage!

Post by RubinHighlander » Mon May 06, 2019 1:15 pm

Rob4Hope wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 1:03 pm
And the one I never would have thought in a million years......the unraveling of the LDS church as it shifts to turn the tide of its hemorrhaging membership.
It's true Rob, so many amazing changes in technology and all the social ones as well over my lifetime. When I started in the tech industry in the late 80's it was a $5/hr job on an IBM duel floppy PC, no hard drive, on DOS 3.2, doing phone support for POS software for video stores! Beta and VHS tapes were still fighting it out for the dominant media spot. It wasn't until a year later Windows 2.0 came out and it was just an accessory to DOS. A decade later we were dialing Compuserv on our 2400 baud modems to search across bulletin boards for tech related issues.

I wonder where TSCC will be in 20 years?
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
--Douglas Adams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzmYP3PbfXE

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Yobispo
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Re: No more year wait for sealing after civil marriage!

Post by Yobispo » Mon May 06, 2019 1:20 pm

jfro18 wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 12:19 pm
RubinHighlander wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 12:14 pm
I can't believe RMN didn't claim revelation here. This would have been a fairly safe one, whereas the other policy/doctrines/programs he's been making the revelation claim on just make him look stupid!
He still might.

Maybe he wants to make sure the reaction is good enough before jumping headfirst into revelation claims after shooting himself in the foot after the Nov 15 claim.
Smart move - test it out a little in the media, and if it is popular start working on qa good revelation story. You know, kinda like Joseph did.

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Rob4Hope
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Re: No more year wait for sealing after civil marriage!

Post by Rob4Hope » Mon May 06, 2019 1:24 pm

RubinHighlander wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 1:15 pm
Rob4Hope wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 1:03 pm
And the one I never would have thought in a million years......the unraveling of the LDS church as it shifts to turn the tide of its hemorrhaging membership.
It's true Rob, so many amazing changes in technology and all the social ones as well over my lifetime. When I started in the tech industry in the late 80's it was a $5/hr job on an IBM duel floppy PC, no hard drive, on DOS 3.2, doing phone support for POS software for video stores! Beta and VHS tapes were still fighting it out for the dominant media spot. It wasn't until a year later Windows 2.0 came out and it was just an accessory to DOS. A decade later we were dialing Compuserv on our 2400 baud modems to search across bulletin boards for tech related issues.

I wonder where TSCC will be in 20 years?
My first 286 had a monochrome monitor and, thanks to Star Trek again, I used QBasic to draw a sign-wave across the screen (what a nerd I am). If there is a god, I thank him (or her or it), because I still have the ability to be amazed and feel childlike wonder at this world and how it changes.

Quantum computers coming of age ever so slowly?

With no desire to hijack this thread, I do want to say one thing: with the changes in this world, the frightening emergence (and to me It FRIGHTENS ME FOR REAL) of real AI; big-data prying into every single detail of people's lives; quantum computers at least theoretically posing serious threats to encryption, etc.

We are living in a revolution. Life is changing faster than ever!...and revolutions in every area are happening. What a freaking (yet exciting) time to live!

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RubinHighlander
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Re: No more year wait for sealing after civil marriage!

Post by RubinHighlander » Mon May 06, 2019 2:18 pm

Rob4Hope wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 1:24 pm
AI; big-data prying into every single detail of people's lives; quantum computers at least theoretically posing serious threats to encryption, etc.
I'm not afraid of AI. If silicon based sentient life evolves from AI and decides to get rid of the sapiens because of how bad we are for the planet...that's just evolution baby! Universe probably doesn't give a crap anyway; if we don't end it, there's a large asteroid or supernova gamma ray burst with our name on it.
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
--Douglas Adams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzmYP3PbfXE

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AllieOop
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Re: No more year wait for sealing after civil marriage!

Post by AllieOop » Mon May 06, 2019 2:56 pm

RubinHighlander wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 12:14 pm
I can't believe RMN didn't claim revelation here. This would have been a fairly safe one, whereas the other policy/doctrines/programs he's been making the revelation claim on just make him look stupid!
I think he may have learned his lesson by calling the SSM policy a revelation and making such a big deal about it....only to have to walk it back and eat crow 3 years later.

But who knows? He may still pull out the big "R" word here!


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"There came a time when the desire to know the truth about the church became stronger than the desire to know the church was true."

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wtfluff
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Re: No more year wait for sealing after civil marriage!

Post by wtfluff » Mon May 06, 2019 3:25 pm

jfro18 wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 12:19 pm
He still might.

Maybe he wants to make sure the reaction is good enough before jumping headfirst into revelation claims after shooting himself in the foot after the Nov 15 claim.
Or maybe we'll get another Aunt Wendy story about Rusty's magic, lighted pen, and "too sacred to talk about" (made up) witnessing.

Stupid old codgers toying with people's lives... (Sorry, too far?)
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

IDKSAF -RubinHighlander

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blazerb
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Re: No more year wait for sealing after civil marriage!

Post by blazerb » Mon May 06, 2019 3:48 pm

AllieOop wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 2:56 pm
RubinHighlander wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 12:14 pm
I can't believe RMN didn't claim revelation here. This would have been a fairly safe one, whereas the other policy/doctrines/programs he's been making the revelation claim on just make him look stupid!
I think he may have learned his lesson by calling the SSM policy a revelation and making such a big deal about it....only to have to walk it back and eat crow 3 years later.

But who knows? He may still pull out the big "R" word here!


*****************
Is there any evidence that throwing around the "R" word cost him anything with the faithful membership? It may be that the ones the church most wants to impress don't care if revelations contradict each other.

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RubinHighlander
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Re: No more year wait for sealing after civil marriage!

Post by RubinHighlander » Mon May 06, 2019 4:02 pm

wtfluff wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 3:25 pm
Stupid old codgers toying with people's lives... (Sorry, too far?)
Not far enough Fluff!

The stories about families hurt by this are coming out of the woodwork like wildfire. My DW was really upset by the news today. We were both in our second marriage and because of all the past sealings BS it just made sense to do a simple civil. But it was about 4 years later by the time we wrote those BS letters to the COB and got a response then jumped through all the hoops with local leaders. Then we go to get sealed and it's suppose to be all special but the workers totally screwed it up and made it awkward. It was frustrating. Then we wanted to have her youngest daughter sealed to me and we spent several months trying to work that out. We had DD all excited to go to the temple for this special sealing ceremony only to have the local SP yank the rug out and say we couldn't do it because technically she was already under my DW's covenant, therefore sealed to me via our sealing. What the crap would it have hurt to take our daughter to have a special day together? I mean, how many times are they recirculating dead people proxies through that place? Here I was a full fee paying card holding TBM, but wasn't allowed to have a special day with DD and DW. I think the SP just made that BS up; looking back I should have Googled the handbook and called him on it!

I think these guys really get off on the pretend power they think they have to mess with people's eternal salvation and blessings, which don't really exists, but they do in people's minds and it's stressful and unhealthy to pull on those strings!
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
--Douglas Adams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzmYP3PbfXE

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wtfluff
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Re: No more year wait for sealing after civil marriage!

Post by wtfluff » Mon May 06, 2019 4:18 pm

RubinHighlander wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 4:02 pm
wtfluff wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 3:25 pm
Stupid old codgers toying with people's lives... (Sorry, too far?)
Not far enough Fluff!

The stories about families hurt by this are coming out of the woodwork like wildfire.
That's the thing though: The vast majority of believing families who have more than one child were hurt by this, and they don't even realize it: Every "older" sibling who had siblings too young to be "endowed" excluded their siblings from their wedding; Along with cousins, nieces, nephews, etc. etc.

Stupid, stupid, stupid...
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

IDKSAF -RubinHighlander

You can surrender without a prayer...

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1smartdodog
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Re: No more year wait for sealing after civil marriage!

Post by 1smartdodog » Mon May 06, 2019 8:00 pm

I wonder how long it will take for the average member to still not think of a civil marriage first as something less. I know many will still be thinking why they could not go to the temple.

It may take awhile before civil marriages are taken seriously. Hopefully many young couples will jump on this and start having more enjoyable weddings.

My hope would be that it becomes common place to get married civilly first, no shame involved.


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“Five percent of the people think; ten percent of the people think they think; and the other eighty-five percent would rather die than think.”
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Thoughtful
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Re: No more year wait for sealing after civil marriage!

Post by Thoughtful » Mon May 06, 2019 9:03 pm

1smartdodog wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 8:00 pm
I wonder how long it will take for the average member to still not think of a civil marriage first as something less. I know many will still be thinking why they could not go to the temple.

It may take awhile before civil marriages are taken seriously. Hopefully many young couples will jump on this and start having more enjoyable weddings.

My hope would be that it becomes common place to get married civilly first, no shame involved.


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I think Bridezillas will quickly start having lifestyle weddings and the wedding industry in UT will boom more than ever. New venues, more accessories, more clothes for larger wedding parties. I think this one will blow over fast due to spoiled UT kids one upping each other. Plus mixed faith marriages will make it easier on families.

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