D&C 132 - Celestial Kingdom loophole?

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jfro18
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D&C 132 - Celestial Kingdom loophole?

Post by jfro18 » Wed May 08, 2019 10:39 am

So on another board there's a post today about how in D&C it's pretty clear that there's a loophole for those who have had a temple sealing:
D&C 132:26: 26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God.
So according to this, once you're sealed in the temple you are guaranteed exaltation as long as you don't take innocent blood... no matter what else you do, you're golden. That was what I understood to be the second annointing.

But that just seems too obvious to not be brought up from the critical point of view, so does anyone know why that doesn't apply?

I mean it sounds like you might have a rough time between death and exaltation, but then you're good to go for eternity in the CK no matter what you do from here on...

Could this be the greatest loophole that Joseph accidentally created while riffing D&C 132 off the top of his head without using the 'seer stone' as Hyrum requested Joseph to use? :lol:

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Re: D&C 132 - Celestial Kingdom loophole?

Post by wtfluff » Wed May 08, 2019 10:53 am

"Sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise" is MORmON-code for the second anointing. (For those in "the know.")

If you aren't part of the "in crowd" who's pays enough bucks, and has the right connections, you don't get a golden ticket/pass to Super VIP Heaven.


Since most believers don't even know about the second anointing, this verse is gonna be quite confusing. Personally, I would love to use that saying as an excuse when "called out" for being an apostate... "Oh, no need to worry about me, I've been sealed by the Holy Spook of promise. I'm good, just check D&C 132:26."
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alas
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Re: D&C 132 - Celestial Kingdom loophole?

Post by alas » Wed May 08, 2019 12:33 pm

New and everlasting covenant is also code for polygamy and the second anointing was done before polygamy back in the early days of the church. It was really quite common for a while, then when they did away with polygamy and it wasn’t necessary for polygamy, then fewer people got it and then it got so fewer people knew it existed. Now it is only for the good old boy’s club and is supper duper secret.

But the second anointing is why women will never get priesthood, because part of the second anointing, the woman is made a priestess unto her husband. She doesn’t hold the power of God, she holds the power of HER god, who is her husband. If you look at the old endowment close enough, it becomes clear what the endowment still means, even though the words have been obfuscated. The church really doesn’t want this old doctrine understood by the general population of the church.

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Re: D&C 132 - Celestial Kingdom loophole?

Post by Arcturus » Wed May 08, 2019 1:30 pm

According to Preach My Gospel, the holy spirit of promise is the role of the HG in ratifying an ordinance:
To be sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise means that the Holy Ghost confirms that righteous acts, ordinances, and covenants are acceptable to God. The Holy Spirit of Promise testifies to the Father that the saving ordinances have been performed properly and that the covenants associated with them have been kept. Those who are sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise receive all that the Father has (see Doctrine and Covenants 76:51–60; Ephesians 1:13–14). All covenants and performances must be sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise if they are to be valid after this life (see Doctrine and Covenants 132:7, 18–19, 26). Breaking covenants may remove the sealing.
Sounds like you could take that and apply it to a temple sealing ceremony, and according to your points jfro, you're all good! But alas is right that the "new and everlasting covenant" used to refer to the practice of polygamy. If that's the case, then most TBMs are screwed these days except for those spiritual polygamists like RMN and DHO.

BTW, Elohim is very concerned that ordinances are "performed properly." If you have long hair and your hair is not fully immersed along with you in baptism, then it's no good. Also, if you are missing your right hand (your covenant hand), then according to DHO you'll probably never be able to completely participate in the sacrament. The HG is attending every ordinance done in this world and checking whether it's done right. If I was baptized incorrectly when I was 8, does that invalidate all the subsequent ordinances I had? Like my temple sealing? I've never thought about this, and now it's going to keep me awake at night :o
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Re: D&C 132 - Celestial Kingdom loophole?

Post by Rob4Hope » Wed May 08, 2019 2:37 pm

I was taught by Phillip Sontag of the 70 that this sealing is the 2nd anointing. But it gives cart-blanch on murder.

If you read 132 carefully, it says that murder is shedding innocent blood. BUT!!!!!! If you read in the New Testament, EVERYONE has sinned and comes short of the glory of God. Hence, there are no innocent people, which means you can't go wrong if you kill anyone.

Its licentious behavior justification of epic proportions.

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Re: D&C 132 - Celestial Kingdom loophole?

Post by Just This Guy » Wed May 08, 2019 4:54 pm

That is one confusing sentence it talks about someone being sealed to exaltation in one phrase, only to be turned over to Satan the next. I'l half tempted to try diagramming it out to understand it. I'm not sure of that is some literary genius there or a drunk idiot to come up with a sentence like that. it's about as clear as mud.
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Re: D&C 132 - Celestial Kingdom loophole?

Post by jfro18 » Wed May 08, 2019 5:34 pm

Just This Guy wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 4:54 pm
That is one confusing sentence it talks about someone being sealed to exaltation in one phrase, only to be turned over to Satan the next. I'l half tempted to try diagramming it out to understand it. I'm not sure of that is some literary genius there or a drunk idiot to come up with a sentence like that. it's about as clear as mud.
To me that reads that you're going to get exaltation, but in that period between mortal death and exaltation you're gonna be the property of Satan.

Which, of course, makes no sense... almost as if Joseph was just making it up out of his head on command... which is exactly how D&C 132 was recorded.

And, yes, the New and Everlasting Covenant is polygamy, which makes the sealing ceremony all the more creepy.

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Re: D&C 132 - Celestial Kingdom loophole?

Post by Just This Guy » Wed May 08, 2019 5:59 pm

So if you marry multiple women, and sin in this life; you get a couple centuries in hell, but still get the women in this life as well as super VIP heaven with all you different women for eternity? Still sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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jfro18
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Re: D&C 132 - Celestial Kingdom loophole?

Post by jfro18 » Wed May 08, 2019 6:07 pm

Just This Guy wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 5:59 pm
So if you marry multiple women, and sin in this life; you get a couple centuries in hell, but still get the women in this life as well as super VIP heaven with all you different women for eternity? Still sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me.
Yeah dude - any that assumes that Satan is going to rip you apart and not just be annoying.

Apparently we just need polygamy to come back to sign up for the eternal loophole?

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Re: D&C 132 - Celestial Kingdom loophole?

Post by Palerider » Wed May 08, 2019 8:00 pm

So glad I don't have to worry about this crap anymore.... :| ..... :)
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Re: D&C 132 - Celestial Kingdom loophole?

Post by jfro18 » Thu May 09, 2019 5:05 am

Palerider wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 8:00 pm
So glad I don't have to worry about this crap anymore.... :| ..... :)
I don't worry about this since I'd bet my life it's not real, but it would be hilarious if this is a really poorly designed loophole.

It does seem like the second annointing and tied to polygamy, but the wording is so screwy. Oh well... I guess I'm back to an eternal TK smoothie in outer darkness.

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Re: D&C 132 - Celestial Kingdom loophole?

Post by Palerider » Thu May 09, 2019 8:46 am

jfro18 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 5:05 am
Palerider wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 8:00 pm
So glad I don't have to worry about this crap anymore.... :| ..... :)

It does seem like the second annointing and tied to polygamy, but the wording is so screwy...
This is one of the reasons I know this stuff is phony.

Joseph is supposed to be restoring the plain and precious parts of the Gospel, right? Easy for anyone to understand and receive salvation.

Are we supposed to believe that Heavenly Father has this ridiculous inability to explain himself so that everyone can understand?

What good is a "prophet" if he can't take dictation? Some idiot apologist out there is going to say, "Well, Joseph is just trying his best to articulate his revelatory impressions."

But that's NOT the way Joseph is writing here or the impression he's trying to give. In most of the "revelations" in the D&C the Lord is speaking in first person.

So you get the feeling God doesn't speak the English language all that well and has trouble expressing himself in an intelligible way.

You know, for someone who knows how the Universe operates and is utterly omniscient, one would think God should be able to express himself with perfect understanding.

For all those apologists out there aren't you forced to ask yourself this question:

"Is God really writing this stuff???"

My advice is to stop blaming yourself for not being righteous enough to understand this gobbledygook. It's not your fault. You can unload that big bag of guilt you keep hauling around. There IS a man behind the curtain, but he wasn't and isn't a true wizard (prophet).
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

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Re: D&C 132 - Celestial Kingdom loophole?

Post by Corsair » Thu May 09, 2019 9:58 am

jfro18 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 5:05 am
I don't worry about this since I'd bet my life it's not real, but it would be hilarious if this is a really poorly designed loophole.

It does seem like the second annointing and tied to polygamy, but the wording is so screwy. Oh well... I guess I'm back to an eternal TK smoothie in outer darkness.
If there is any kind of loophole in the gospel, I assure you that you will not be given any license to use it. LDS leadership can grant deceased prophets access to any loophole, but not you. So forget about erasing your mistakes using excuses like "Speaking as a man" or "just men of their time" or "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, we were sealed in eternity."

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Re: D&C 132 - Celestial Kingdom loophole?

Post by jfro18 » Thu May 09, 2019 10:20 am

Palerider wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 8:46 am
What good is a "prophet" if he can't take dictation? Some idiot apologist out there is going to say, "Well, Joseph is just trying his best to articulate his revelatory impressions."

But that's NOT the way Joseph is writing here or the impression he's trying to give. In most of the "revelations" in the D&C the Lord is speaking in first person.

So you get the feeling God doesn't speak the English language all that well and has trouble expressing himself in an intelligible way.

You know, for someone who knows how the Universe operates and is utterly omniscient, one would think God should be able to express himself with perfect understanding.

For all those apologists out there aren't you forced to ask yourself this question:

"Is God really writing this stuff???"
100% agree. I heard John Larsen say in a podcast once that the way you know the BoM isn't true is because in the entire history of the book they never actually make advancements. And I thought - man that's a really good point that you just don't really think about when reading it.

But beyond the BoM, the easiest way to know it isn't true is looking at how Joseph Smith was claiming revelation vs how everyone since has. The idea that God would appear to JS nonstop and send every person imaginable to him in vision/revelation and then just basically leave every other prophet on their own is nonsensical.

So what good is a prophet when they are screwing up just as much as we are? And what good is a prophet when the foundation of the church is a proven fraud anyway?!

You don't even need to get super deep in the details to realize this just doesn't make sense.

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Re: D&C 132 - Celestial Kingdom loophole?

Post by Rob4Hope » Thu May 09, 2019 12:26 pm

wtfluff wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:53 am
"Sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise" is MORmON-code for the second anointing. (For those in "the know.")

If you aren't part of the "in crowd" who's pays enough bucks, and has the right connections, you don't get a golden ticket/pass to Super VIP Heaven.


Since most believers don't even know about the second anointing, this verse is gonna be quite confusing. Personally, I would love to use that saying as an excuse when "called out" for being an apostate... "Oh, no need to worry about me, I've been sealed by the Holy Spook of promise. I'm good, just check D&C 132:26."
In an interesting way, I guess Tom Phillips is OK. Or is he a Son of Perdition?

I know that William Law was designated that end. What confused me was William Law lived a good honest life after the church affair, and he raised some outstanding children. How can a child of hell do that? I mean, didn't Jesus say something about not getting bitter water from a good well or something?

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Re: D&C 132 - Celestial Kingdom loophole?

Post by wtfluff » Thu May 09, 2019 3:36 pm

Rob4Hope wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 12:26 pm
wtfluff wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:53 am
"Sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise" is MORmON-code for the second anointing. (For those in "the know.")

If you aren't part of the "in crowd" who's pays enough bucks, and has the right connections, you don't get a golden ticket/pass to Super VIP Heaven.


Since most believers don't even know about the second anointing, this verse is gonna be quite confusing. Personally, I would love to use that saying as an excuse when "called out" for being an apostate... "Oh, no need to worry about me, I've been sealed by the Holy Spook of promise. I'm good, just check D&C 132:26."
In an interesting way, I guess Tom Phillips is OK. Or is he a Son of Perdition?
Well... Tom openly sued LD$-Inc. in a bit of a public spectacle; Yet he hasn't been excommunicated, so what does that tell you? :lol:
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

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Re: D&C 132 - Celestial Kingdom loophole?

Post by sunstoned » Fri May 10, 2019 2:36 am

Joseph Bishop most likely has had his second anointing, and he has not been excommunicated. If a regular member would have done what Bishop did, he/she would be gone in .02 seconds.

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