McKenna Denson Bonfire

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moksha
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McKenna Denson Bonfire

Post by moksha » Mon May 27, 2019 5:56 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvZPuduWqU8

Remember the lady who made the rape charge at the Missionary Training Center and last week told how people are assaulting her? This is pretty sensitive material so I hope McKenna is not being misrepresented.
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Thoughtful
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Re: McKenna Denson Bonfire

Post by Thoughtful » Mon May 27, 2019 6:05 pm

moksha wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 5:56 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvZPuduWqU8

Remember the lady who made the rape charge at the Missionary Training Center and last week told how people are assaulting her? This is pretty sensitive material so I hope McKenna is not being misrepresented.
I've heard some of it before.

Obviously JB still admitted to stuff and BYUPD redacted stuff and there's other victims.

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MoPag
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Re: McKenna Denson Bonfire

Post by MoPag » Mon May 27, 2019 6:45 pm

Ugh what a clusterf--k. I really hate to think McKenna is truing into our own Jussie Smollett.
Thoughtful wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 6:05 pm

I've heard some of it before.

Obviously JB still admitted to stuff and BYUPD redacted stuff and there's other victims.
There is still this^^ I still believe she was a victim of JB. But she isn't handling her trauma very well. I wonder what kind of help she is getting in the way of mental healthcare. I bet Kirton and McConkie are doing a happy dance right about now. :(
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Re: McKenna Denson Bonfire

Post by Mormorrisey » Mon May 27, 2019 6:48 pm

Thoughtful wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 6:05 pm
moksha wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 5:56 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvZPuduWqU8

Remember the lady who made the rape charge at the Missionary Training Center and last week told how people are assaulting her? This is pretty sensitive material so I hope McKenna is not being misrepresented.
I've heard some of it before.

Obviously JB still admitted to stuff and BYUPD redacted stuff and there's other victims.
And that's the thing, there ARE other victims of this guy, and one can only hope that's why the case is still going forward. Those are the people I feel bad for, the other victims. I can't believe that McKenna's lawyers didn't know all of this, if Mike Norton could dig it up, and perhaps that's why the case is still there. No winners in this one.
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Re: McKenna Denson Bonfire

Post by Thoughtful » Mon May 27, 2019 8:00 pm

Mormorrisey wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 6:48 pm
Thoughtful wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 6:05 pm
moksha wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 5:56 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvZPuduWqU8

Remember the lady who made the rape charge at the Missionary Training Center and last week told how people are assaulting her? This is pretty sensitive material so I hope McKenna is not being misrepresented.
I've heard some of it before.

Obviously JB still admitted to stuff and BYUPD redacted stuff and there's other victims.
And that's the thing, there ARE other victims of this guy, and one can only hope that's why the case is still going forward. Those are the people I feel bad for, the other victims. I can't believe that McKenna's lawyers didn't know all of this, if Mike Norton could dig it up, and perhaps that's why the case is still there. No winners in this one.
Previous arrests, pseudonyms, stealing rx pad were all mentioned in media previously. The lawsuits that were manufactured are concerning though. Swallowing razors???

Craig Vernon is a very successful attorney in this realm. I can only hope their case is strong enough to overrule the doubt it will cast.

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Re: McKenna Denson Bonfire

Post by jfro18 » Mon May 27, 2019 8:31 pm

There was a thread once she posted that she was attacked and poisoned that people should put some caution into her story... this is why.

I think the church is a lie, but they're not going to sneak into her house and poison her orange juice, and they're certainly not going to attack her in the same crazy ways she had previously complained about.

It seems that Bishop is guilty of some awful things, but it also seems that McKenna is not in a good place either... I have no idea what this does to the actual case going forward, but I assume Kirton-McConkie has to be doing backflips tonight.

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Random
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Re: McKenna Denson Bonfire

Post by Random » Mon May 27, 2019 11:50 pm

Wow! :o :shock:
There are 2 Gods. One who created us. The other you created. The God you made up is just like you-thrives on flattery-makes you live in fear.

Believe in the God who created us. And the God you created should be abolished.
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Re: McKenna Denson Bonfire

Post by Not Buying It » Tue May 28, 2019 9:30 am

Even if McKenna Denson made the story up about the rape at the MTC - and despite new revelations that is by no means certain given other corroborating evidence - the Church was still wrong to dig up all the dirt they could find on her then hand it over to Bishop's lawyers. No matter what, the Church doesn't come across as looking very Christ-like in any of their dealings with Ms. Denson.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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Re: McKenna Denson Bonfire

Post by alas » Tue May 28, 2019 2:31 pm

McKenna’s crazy behavior has nothing to do with whether or not Joseph Bishop is guilty. Rather than proving him innocent, it is actually more proof of his guilt. I worked as a counselor with women who had been sexually abused and there was lots of crazy behavior, sexual acting out, illegal stuff, drug addiction, lying, making crazy accusation, sounding paranoid, making up stories about other rape. Yeah, I had one client who made up a whole story with her having to testify in court and all kind of crazy detail. I wasn’t sure how to deal with it because there was no truth to it...but she HAD been raped, just not in the same situation she was talking about. Another woman made up fictional stories, but when I got to the truth, it was her father who had raped her and he was a minister in a local congregation. But lots of crazy acting out. And you know what? It was all a result of the damage done to the person by the sexual abuse. Being raped by someone you trust, who uses that trust and their position of authority or acting in God’s name like Bishop did is very damaging to the victim. So, from my perspective all the “dirt” the church is digging up on McKenna is really all proof of Joseph bishop’s guilt. It is proof that McKenna is acting out some pretty serious PTSD.

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Re: McKenna Denson Bonfire

Post by Red Ryder » Tue May 28, 2019 3:32 pm

Consig weighed in on his thoughts about it over at Mormon discussions forum.

Page 3
http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/vie ... =1&t=51666
“Consiglieri” wrote:Consig is here and has been monitoring the situation since yesterday.

I definitely have some thoughts about the situation, but will share just a few due to time constraints.

1. I have spoken with McKenna many times on the phone though I have never met her personally. She has always come across as very lucid in our phone conversations. She has presented in every way as a good, kind and caring human being.

2. As you know, I have devoted several podcasts to her story, including a two-part interview where I had her on the show and gave her the opportunity to tell her story. I thought she did a good job of laying out her version of events.

3. Four months ago, she contacted me to tell me somebody had put Drano in her orange juice, that she took a swallow and it burned going down; that she was taken to the hospital and police were called. The police acted as if they didn't believe her story. I questioned her regarding what took place; she said she had left the house to drive her daughter to school; returned 20-30 minutes later; took the orange juice out of the refrigerator and took a swallow; that it burned going down; and she was taken to the hospital.

4. I asked her if there was a Drano bottle on the kitchen counter or anywhere close by; she said no; she said that she does have Drano in the house; but it was in its usual spot in the pantry (or wherever it was she keeps the Drano); I asked if police had taken the orange juice for testing; she said they had. I suggested the Drano bottle should be dusted for fingerprints.

5. I asked her who else was in the house; and she mentioned the name of a male friend who was staying there; and I told her he was the primary suspect then; and I added that, of course, she was the other primary suspect. (She may have thought I was kidding more than I was.)

6. She later called me and told me about the incident of her car being set on fire; I asked if she had insurance on the car; and she said she did not; which seemed to make it less likely she would set her own car on fire.

7. She also told me when she had her nose and wrist and finger broken in an alleged attack outside her house; that she heard something going on outside (I think at night), and she went out on the front porch, saw a man in her front yard (whom she was unable to identify); she ran down into the yard after him; then she remembered nothing else until she was waking up on the ground with the injuries; she seemed to think a second man must have been present and tackled her from behind, but she could not be sure on this point; it seemed she was struggling to come up with some reason why she ended up on the ground with the injuries; she was clear it was not the man she originally saw who attacked her.

8. At this point (still four months ago), she told me she wanted to go public with the story; I advised her in no uncertain terms to not do that; I told her I wasn't the smartest guy in the world, but the first thing I thought of when she said the story about the Drano in the orange juice was the razor blades in the P.F. Chang's cake frosting; that I was sure I wasn't the only person who would make the connection.

9. McKenna (or a friend of hers on the other end of the phone call, I can't remember which at this point) said she was sure this was the SCMC coming after McKenna; I shared my belief that this was not the case; I was told that she (or her friend) knew for sure the SCMC did this kind of thing because she (or her friend) had experienced it in the past.

10. McKenna (or her friend) said that this would be a smart move for the SCMC to do something like this because it would make McKenna look like she was a liar or nuts to say the same thing she had said before in an earlier incident; I said that assuming for the sake of argument this was true, and she had correctly identified the strategy of the SCMC in doing this to her; to want her to go public and look crazy or like she was lying; then why on earth would she want to play into their hands and go public just like they wanted her to?

11. This seemed to make sense to her at the time. I was therefore surprised that a couple of weeks ago she decided to go public with the stories anyway, and felt it would only be a matter of time before the completely foreseeable ramifications of her doing so would become manifest.

12. The publication of the stories of the recent attacks caused people in the post-Mormon community, until then her most ardent supporters, to begin to question her credibility; it seems I was not the only one who felt these events sounded unlikely.

13. Last week some police reports began to circulate; I skimmed through a couple of them; the first having to do with the event at California Dreaming in 1999 when she claimed she drove to the restaurant at night after being fired to collect her paycheck; the door was locked; and she was assaulted by two black men and locked in the trunk of a car; her face was bruised in the incident and the investigating officer questioned her closely about the injury; he was suspicious because there did not seem to be a "contact" point for the injury; in other words there was no place where it appeared she had been hit or struck to cause the bruising; he asked her to point out to him where she was actually hit and she pointed to a location hear her eye where he could not see any evidence of being actually struck there; this of course made me think of the bruising she received in the most recent assault; although in the most recent assault her nose was broken, as well as her wrist, so obviously there was some sort of contact point; nevertheless the similarity was troubling.

14. I remember when she told me about the injuries she recently received that I replied perhaps she slipped and fell down on her face and that is what caused the broken nose and the wrist was fractured in an attempt to break her fall; ditto the finger; she rejected this explanation as she claimed to have injuries to her back, as well, which suggested to her she had been assaulted in a way that a simple fall on her face would not explain. Please remember that she said she could not remember what actually happened, so we were trying to fill in the blanks as best as we could.

15. Also late last week, I skimmed through the police reports relating to the 2004 PF Chang's incident; law enforcement did a thorough investigation on the incident as a potential Assault in the First Degree, if somebody intentionally put the small razor blades in the cake frosting; they talked to the people who worked at the restaurant, as well as the people who supplied the cakes to PF Changs; everything turned up negative.

16. But then the police began getting swamped by phone calls from different persons, most of them anonymous, who claimed McKenna (then June Hughes) had a long history of making such claims, and gave lots of details; police called McKenna back into the station to ask her some questions and began to confront her with all of these different allegations.

17. The thing that jumped out at me was on the top of page 52 of the police reports; that is where police were questioning McKenna about her allegation of having been raped after being given a date-rape drug; according to the report, McKenna stated that a neighbor must have snuck into her house and put the drug into her orange juice, but they were never able to prove it.

18. Having an unknown person sneak into your house and put something in your orange juice is difficult to believe if it happens only once in a person's lifetime; having it happen twice strains credulity to the breaking point.

19. Where does this leave everything? I think the evidence indicates that Joseph Bishop met repeatedly with McKenna Denson in his office at the MTC to discuss things of a sexual nature; that during these discussions Joseph Bishop shared sexual stories related to himself as well as his wife; that at some point Joseph Bishop invited McKenna to see his special preparation room in the basement of the MTC.

20 After they were in the preparation room in the basement of the MTC, however, we are left with McKenna's version of events; as Joseph Bishop denies having gone there with her, but does remember going to another room off the cafeteria on the main floor of the MTC where he says he asked her to show him her breasts, which she did. McKenna, on the other hand, denies this was she.

21. I think McKenna's credibility is severely injured by these new allegations of assaults, especially the Drano in the orange juice. Her new allegations have apparently led to the surfacing and/or leaking of the old police reports, which put her credibility even more into question.

22. McKenna's case hinges on the credibility of somebody who has shown herself to not be credible. I expect her attorney would argue that Joseph Bishop's sexual interest in McKenna can be proven, as can the fact he took her to his preparation room in the basement; why would he do this unless it were to move forward with his sexual designs on McKenna?

23. The Church's position would be that, whereas that may be true, after they got into the room, we have only McKenna's word for the rape she claims happened after that.

24. Also, there is the report she made in 1987 to her YSA ward bishop, Ron Leavitt, who when asked by the media, recalled her coming to him with a claim about Joseph Bishop an the basement room, but said the claim was one of being taken down there (possibly with another sister missionary) and shown pornography by Joseph Bishop. This raises the question of whether her claim of what happened in the basement room has been embellished over the years.

25. Finally, it occurs to me that the claim of being taken to the basement room by Joseph Bishop may be put into question even further; we know Joseph Bishop was very forthcoming with private details to McKenna during their frequent meetings in his office (mainly because he corroborated the stories he told McKenna during these meetings in the interview McKenna tape-recorded). But what if one of the things he shared with McKenna in his office was that he had a special room in the basement of the MTC where he went to prepare spiritually? What if he described some of the things, such as the VCR, in the room? What if he just said he went down there to prepare and, as part of that preparation, watched video tapes of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir?

26. If Joseph Bishop did, in fact, mention to McKenna the existence of his special preparation room in the basement, the fact McKenna says that is where the rape happened, and the fact the existence of the room was subsequently corroborated by an MTC worker, takes on decidedly less significance. In other words, there is an alternative explanation for McKenna's knowledge of Joseph Bishop's preparation room in the basement other than her being taken down there personally by Joseph Bishop.

27. My main point in examining this story was the angle that the church was engaged in a cover-up; I still think the facts show that to be the case; from their knowledge of the preparation room in the basement which they did not admit until confronted about it by the media; to the severely redacted BYU police reports. The church has not acted in good faith, in my opinion.

28. Unfortunately, McKenna has severely undermined the strength of her case by having a lengthy history of making claims of a sexual and/or violent nature and sometimes using those to sue for damages; and the similarities between prior claims and recent claims only serve to undermine her credibility all the more.

29. Now, does that mean she is lying about being raped by Joseph Bishop? No. It does not. Even if we assume the worst and that each and every one of the stories McKenna are false and stemming from the worst motives, it does not mean she could not be raped, and it does not mean Joseph Bishop could not have raped her. The hit McKenna's credibility has taken simply makes it decidedly harder to prove.

30. My final thought for now is that in all my dealings with McKenna, she has presented as genuine and sincere. She is a human being, and there are at least parts of her that seem to me to be a good human being. There are other aspects that have surfaced that seem to be less so. I think the dichotomy presented of her either being a saint or a monster are not helpful. She has aspects of both, as do all of us. I can understand people feeling betrayed by her, and I can understand why they feel that way. I expect the extent to which we feel betrayed is likely the same extent to which we have promoted or relied on her story to justify our own feelings against the church. I do not feel angry about all of this, but saddened. I think McKenna is fundamentally a good person, though one who has doubtless made some mistakes (some of them serious). I wish her health and healing.

31. I wish health and healing for the post-Mormon community, as well, and after the pain and vitriol has subsided, I hope the community will learn some valuable lessons from this episode.
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Re: McKenna Denson Bonfire

Post by Rob4Hope » Wed May 29, 2019 9:01 am

Ahhh....this is sad.

McKenna is struggling. I feel concern for her because I believe she is a victim. However, I confess I had hoped she would sock it to the LDS church over this. I feel anger at the LDS justification of using satanic tactics to fight the war, feeling justified hypocritically because they are "The Lord's Church"...

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Re: McKenna Denson Bonfire

Post by alas » Wed May 29, 2019 9:15 am

Rob4Hope wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 9:01 am
Ahhh....this is sad.

McKenna is struggling. I feel concern for her because I believe she is a victim. However, I confess I had hoped she would sock it to the LDS church over this. I feel anger at the LDS justification of using satanic tactics to fight the war, feeling justified hypocritically because they are "The Lord's Church"...
That is the thing about using tactics the Lord would not use. It just proves you most certainly are not the lord’s church when you do things in “his name” that he would never do. The general authorities need to be send back to primary for a remedial course in WWJD.

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Re: McKenna Denson Bonfire

Post by moksha » Wed May 29, 2019 2:10 pm

Don't know about the rest of you, but I love it when lawyers enumerate. Consiglieri does it so masterfully.
Consiglieri wrote:27. My main point in examining this story was the angle that the church was engaged in a cover-up; ...
I think the coverup portion was reflexive on the part of the Church, although they may have been urged to do so by their law firm Kirton McConkie.

Sometimes a group of people who have been forced into constant lying for business or religious purposes, such as continuing to sell cigarettes or perpetuate polygamy carry over that behavior into a pattern and feel compelled to lie under other circumstances. Such people or institutions might even rely on quoting Kim Jong-un when seeking to denigrate a rival due to that patterned response mechanism.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
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Re: McKenna Denson Bonfire

Post by Just This Guy » Thu May 30, 2019 6:18 am

In the Martinsburg WV case, one of the parents of the children abused suffered a stroke while the trial was on going. After the stroke, he was different. At one point he went on a public tirade claiming that the church was trying to kill him. Fortunately, the trial was winding down at this point and the evidence was already presented and they had a clear case of church leadership aiding and abetting molester Chris Jensen. This person had testified before the stroke, but his sudden change in temperament did cast some question on this testimony and cast some doubt on the case as a whole. So it went from being a slam dunk case that could have really damaged the church to having some doubts out there.

After this person made a spectacle of themselves, to prevent them from going any further and doing more damaged, they went for settlement. The settlement was WAY more open than the church has ever done, but it was not as far as the family and lawyers would have liked.

I can't imaging what it's like to be in that situation. It's bad enough that the initial abuse happened and the trauma it causes. But to have it amplified and to relive in that trauma for years in a very public setting has to be horrendous. No wonder this person had such severe health issues.

I see McKenna as a similar situation. There really is no doubt that the rape occurred. Mr. Bishop has admitted to it. The police reports that we have are also very clear on that matter. She was raped and the church covered it up. She was assaulted at a church meeting in Martinsburg WV. There is video proof. However, her behavior since it all came to like and became public knowledge is concerning. I see a very damaged woman. She has been living with the trauma for decades and for the last year or so has become a public figure, constantly reliving that trauma for all to see. It's no wonder if someone suffers mental illness or has a breakdown, which this looks to be the case.

The sad part is her breakdown will likely greatly affect her case against the church and the church will use everything they can get their hands on to paint her in the worst possible light. Her lawyers are going to have a major uphill battle.

Taking on a entity of the magnitude of LDSinc. is extremely stressful. It is compounded on the fact that man members take it upon themselves to protect the church in an almost Dannite fashion. This is going to take a physical and mental toll on even the best people.

It does raise a question of how LDSinc. uses this. Does it simply capitalize on people's stress, or do they go out of their way to make life a living hell to push them to the breaking point?
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Re: McKenna Denson Bonfire

Post by MoPag » Fri May 31, 2019 8:32 am

alas wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 2:31 pm
McKenna’s crazy behavior has nothing to do with whether or not Joseph Bishop is guilty. Rather than proving him innocent, it is actually more proof of his guilt. I worked as a counselor with women who had been sexually abused and there was lots of crazy behavior, sexual acting out, illegal stuff, drug addiction, lying, making crazy accusation, sounding paranoid, making up stories about other rape. Yeah, I had one client who made up a whole story with her having to testify in court and all kind of crazy detail. I wasn’t sure how to deal with it because there was no truth to it...but she HAD been raped, just not in the same situation she was talking about. Another woman made up fictional stories, but when I got to the truth, it was her father who had raped her and he was a minister in a local congregation. But lots of crazy acting out. And you know what? It was all a result of the damage done to the person by the sexual abuse. Being raped by someone you trust, who uses that trust and their position of authority or acting in God’s name like Bishop did is very damaging to the victim. So, from my perspective all the “dirt” the church is digging up on McKenna is really all proof of Joseph bishop’s guilt. It is proof that McKenna is acting out some pretty serious PTSD.
This is really good to know.
Lindsay Hansen Park shared on FB how we get obsessed with the "perfect leader." It's all a throw back to our TBM days when we thought we were following a prophet. We want a prefect person, or in McKenna's case, a perfect victim to rally around. I'm not excusing or condoning the wrong she has done. But through this whole crazy mess I'm realizing I still have more deprogramming to do.
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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alas
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Re: McKenna Denson Bonfire

Post by alas » Fri May 31, 2019 12:31 pm

MoPag wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 8:32 am
alas wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 2:31 pm
McKenna’s crazy behavior has nothing to do with whether or not Joseph Bishop is guilty. Rather than proving him innocent, it is actually more proof of his guilt. I worked as a counselor with women who had been sexually abused and there was lots of crazy behavior, sexual acting out, illegal stuff, drug addiction, lying, making crazy accusation, sounding paranoid, making up stories about other rape. Yeah, I had one client who made up a whole story with her having to testify in court and all kind of crazy detail. I wasn’t sure how to deal with it because there was no truth to it...but she HAD been raped, just not in the same situation she was talking about. Another woman made up fictional stories, but when I got to the truth, it was her father who had raped her and he was a minister in a local congregation. But lots of crazy acting out. And you know what? It was all a result of the damage done to the person by the sexual abuse. Being raped by someone you trust, who uses that trust and their position of authority or acting in God’s name like Bishop did is very damaging to the victim. So, from my perspective all the “dirt” the church is digging up on McKenna is really all proof of Joseph bishop’s guilt. It is proof that McKenna is acting out some pretty serious PTSD.
This is really good to know.
Lindsay Hansen Park shared on FB how we get obsessed with the "perfect leader." It's all a throw back to our TBM days when we thought we were following a prophet. We want a prefect person, or in McKenna's case, a perfect victim to rally around. I'm not excusing or condoning the wrong she has done. But through this whole crazy mess I'm realizing I still have more deprogramming to do.
It is also part of rape culture. We want a perfect victim. We like victims who are pure and innocent. Two year olds are best. We want her dressed modestly. A burka is good or full nun’s habit. She must not drink, smoke or gamble but has to be clean and innocent. We want the victim whose rapist jumps out of the bushes and rapes her at gun point, leaving her ....well dead is best because then we KNOW it was really rape, but we settle for her being beaten near to death. Then we want her to press changes right away. We want her to remain pure and innocent. She cannot be so angry or traumatized that she acts out in any way. But she also cannot be calm or obviously it wasn’t rape. But if she is angry or upset, then pressing rape charges is just revenge for something. When she testifies her story must be perfect. If she remembers dates or times wrong, it is proof she is lying.

Yeah, once I was therapist in a group for teen boys who had sexually abused their sisters. One of them said that he had proof that his five year old sister had seduced him because when she was 15 she started sleeping around. See, she was just an over sexed kid. He refused to see that her behavior at 15 was the result of being sexually abused from 5 till 14.

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Re: McKenna Denson Bonfire

Post by Rob4Hope » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:30 am

alas wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 12:31 pm
McKenna’s crazy behavior has nothing to do with whether or not Joseph Bishop is guilty.
....
It is also part of rape culture. We want a perfect victim. We like victims who are pure and innocent.
When I read this Alas, I couldn't help but think about the honor code crap happening at BYU. If a woman goes to authorities and reports rape, the school opens a file ON HER! Why?....because "if she wasn't at that party in the first place, this rape wouldn't have happened."

Blaming the victim is such a horrible problem,...and it goes to show that the LDS church is not exempt from it. You would think that if this were the progressive church of Christ, there would be more progress...you know?

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