What if? New HBO Show on Mormonism's Beginnings

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Arcturus
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What if? New HBO Show on Mormonism's Beginnings

Post by Arcturus » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:44 am

Think this would do well on HBO?

A series that rivals Game of Thrones in character development and film quality, about the beginnings of Mormonism. Begins with the Joseph Sr. and Lucy Mack frontier home. The character of Joseph Sr. and Lucy are as depicted in Rough Stone Rolling. Based on raw Mormon historical events with leniency/creativity given to character development throughout the show.

Covers key historical points (sorry if some of these are out of order) could include (but not be limited to):
  • Hyrum's attendance at the Dartmouth-affiliated boarding school, and the doctrinal discussions that occur at the Smith home regarding Prof. John Smith's doctrinal suppositions that happen to become Mormon theology down the road.
  • Joseph Jr.'s leg surgery and the tie to Dartmouth via previous bullet.
  • Joseph Jr.'s treasure digging escapades and consequent brushes with the law.
  • The Burned over District as a catalyst for Joseph Jr. becoming a pious? fraud.
  • First vision accounts - question as to where to include in series timeline.
  • BofM production.
  • Joseph Jr.'s stay among Swedenborgites and theological discussion of afterlife.
  • Masonic influence.
  • Priesthood restoration and Whitmer opposition - question as to where to place in series.
  • Fanny Alger affair and Cowdery's excommunication.
  • Community conflict due to polygamy.
  • Council of 50.
  • Kirkland days, spiritual wifery.
  • Thomas Marsh and milk-strippings story.
  • Danites, Porter Rockwell, and bowie knives.
  • Kirkland days, spiritual wifery.
  • Polygamy (imagine where this could go in the show...).
  • Joseph's bank failure.
  • Run for presidency.
  • Nauvoo expositer.
  • Printing press destruction.
  • Carthage martyrdom.
  • Power vacuum, Samuel Smith (murder?) passing.
  • Brigham's takeover.
Ends with the exodus to Utah... I think with the right producer this would be a highly viewed show. Imagine what this would do to the fairytale historical narrative as currently taught in church.
“How valuable is a faith that is dependent on the maintenance of ignorance? If faith can only thrive in the absence of the knowledge of its origins, history, and competing theological concepts, then what is it we really have to hold on to?”
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moksha
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Re: What if? New HBO Show on Mormonism's Beginnings

Post by moksha » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:22 am

Arcturus wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:44 am
  • Joseph Jr.'s stay among Swedenborgites and theological discussion of the afterlife.
This sounds new to me. Could you tell us more about this stay?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Corsair
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Re: What if? New HBO Show on Mormonism's Beginnings

Post by Corsair » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:06 pm

HBO just released a movie tying up "Deadwood". A series like the original seasons of Deadwood would be great. It could be named "Nauvoo" and contain lots of flashbacks to this list of wacky events showing how they affected the sociality of Nauvoo. And the story is full of drama, murder, sex, coverups, divine authority, resisting the government, braving the elements, and building a successful city.

Plural marriage alone would be a huge draw. Joseph's "plural marriage" versus John C. Bennet's "spiritual wifery" versus William Law's "Nauvoo Expositor" would be fantastic. Plus one of the seaons would obviously end in the Carthage jail gunfight and martyrdom/lynching. The series could end with the dramatic tragedy of leaving the city and close with the burning of the Nauvoo temple along with Brigham's reaction to it.

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jfro18
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Re: What if? New HBO Show on Mormonism's Beginnings

Post by jfro18 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:34 pm

A show like that would truly be fascinating.

I mean I have come to really hate the church as an institution, but I can't deny it's really fascinating... and the two non-members I've really talked about the church with are mesmerized at the insanity of it.

So I think a show like that would do well... it would of course turn members off immediately, but boy would it be interesting.

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Ghost
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Re: What if? New HBO Show on Mormonism's Beginnings

Post by Ghost » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:29 pm

I still wish Richard Dutcher's Joseph Smith movie had materialized.

Arcturus
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Re: What if? New HBO Show on Mormonism's Beginnings

Post by Arcturus » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:11 am

moksha wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:22 am
Arcturus wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:44 am
  • Joseph Jr.'s stay among Swedenborgites and theological discussion of the afterlife.
This sounds new to me. Could you tell us more about this stay?
If I remember correctly, it’s talked about in the Mormon Wellness Podcast episode 013. She mentions that there’s an entry in Joseph’s journal perhaps of a stay with some folks who follow Emanuel Swedenborg? I’ll have to see if I can find this entry in the Joseph Smith papers.
“How valuable is a faith that is dependent on the maintenance of ignorance? If faith can only thrive in the absence of the knowledge of its origins, history, and competing theological concepts, then what is it we really have to hold on to?”
D Brisbin

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2bizE
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Re: What if? New HBO Show on Mormonism's Beginnings

Post by 2bizE » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:46 am

Sounds fantastic. It would be the talk of the town. Imagine all of the sex and deceit. It would be like a frontier Dallas or Dynasty.
Who would you like to see cast as the characters?
Emilia Clarke as Emma or Fanny?
~2bizE

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Corsair
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Re: What if? New HBO Show on Mormonism's Beginnings

Post by Corsair » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:22 am

2bizE wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:46 am
Sounds fantastic. It would be the talk of the town. Imagine all of the sex and deceit. It would be like a frontier Dallas or Dynasty.
Who would you like to see cast as the characters?
Emilia Clarke as Emma or Fanny?
Part of my fascination for this project would be the inevitable interviews with actors and directors who study the lives of the characters with the goal of portraying them as authentically as possible. Emilia Clarke did not have a real person to model as Daenerys Targaryen. She could only read one set of books on her. There is discussion of the Targaryen queen, but most people largely agree on her character and motivation.

But if she was playing Emma, or Fanny, or Vilate, or Helen, or Eilza, then she has a host of competing accounts of those people. I can only imagine the church figuring out how to deal with non-LDS actors interpreting these notable figures that are such a crucial part of the theology and doctrine of the modern LDS narrative.

It's hard to control that story once non-believers start to interpret it. The Book of Mormon Musical was crazy enough, but a secular dramatization of Nauvoo is a brand new can of worms to open.

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MoPag
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Re: What if? New HBO Show on Mormonism's Beginnings

Post by MoPag » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:54 am

That would be awesome!!

Also it would be really funny when TBMs accidentally find the show on tv and they are like: "wut??" :lol: :lol:
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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moksha
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Re: What if? New HBO Show on Mormonism's Beginnings

Post by moksha » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:00 am

Arcturus wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:11 am
If I remember correctly, it’s talked about in the Mormon Wellness Podcast episode 013. She mentions that there’s an entry in Joseph’s journal perhaps of a stay with some folks who follow Emanuel Swedenborg? I’ll have to see if I can find this entry in the Joseph Smith papers.
That would certainly help establish the link to Joseph's appropriation of Swedenborg's concepts of the Celestial and Terrestrial Kingdoms, the three levels of glory, and Celestial marriage.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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moksha
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Re: What if? New HBO Show on Mormonism's Beginnings

Post by moksha » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:15 am

2bizE wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:46 am
Who would you like to see cast as the characters?
Emilia Clarke as Emma or Fanny?
Jack Black as Brigham in his latter-days, Pee Wee Herman as Sidney Rigdon, Steve Buscemi as Pappy Smith, Danny Trejo as Orin Porter Rockwell, Zoe Saldana as Jane Manning James, Dakota Fanning as Fanny Alger. Not familiar with any young teen actresses that could play Helen Marr Kimball.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Re: What if? New HBO Show on Mormonism's Beginnings

Post by wtfluff » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:12 am

Corsair wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:22 am
It's hard to control that story once non-believers start to interpret it. The Book of Mormon Musical was crazy enough, but a secular dramatization of Nauvoo is a brand new can of worms to open.
Here's where I always have to insert my (unwanted) skepticism into the "This Show about MORmONism would be awessome!!!" Conversations.

There are many, many, many MORmON themed movies and TV shows that have already been made. The vast majority of them were complete flops. Trey Parker and Co.'s Musical is the only one that has been really successful.

The vast majority of human beings don't care about MORmONism. The majority of baptized MORmONs don't even care about MORmONism. I personally won't be investing any of my saved tithing dollars in the "Next Big MORmON movie." (Well... Maybe if you get Trey and his friends to write the "Movie" I'll change my mind.)


Sorry to be a downer. Carry on...
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

IDKSAF -RubinHighlander

You can surrender without a prayer...

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Linked
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Re: What if? New HBO Show on Mormonism's Beginnings

Post by Linked » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:22 am

wtfluff wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:12 am
Here's where I always have to insert my (unwanted) skepticism into the "This Show about MORmONism would be awessome!!!" Conversations.

There are many, many, many MORmON themed movies and TV shows that have already been made. The vast majority of them were complete flops. Trey Parker and Co.'s Musical is the only one that has been really successful.

The vast majority of human beings don't care about MORmONism. The majority of baptized MORmONs don't even care about MORmONism. I personally won't be investing any of my saved tithing dollars in the "Next Big MORmON movie." (Well... Maybe if you get Trey and his friends to write the "Movie" I'll change my mind.)


Sorry to be a downer. Carry on...
That's true, most people don't care about mormonism. But they do care about intrigue and murder and power struggles and sex. So focus on that part.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

BringEmYoung
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Re: What if? New HBO Show on Mormonism's Beginnings

Post by BringEmYoung » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:26 am

I would LOVE this assuming it was very well written and acted. I've long said there is enough plot material there to keep audiences fascinated for many seasons.

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2bizE
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Re: What if? New HBO Show on Mormonism's Beginnings

Post by 2bizE » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:49 am

For character development and authenticity, what kind of accent did the folks have back then? Did JS and others still have a British accent of sorts? Or had the American accent evolved yet?
~2bizE

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moksha
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Re: What if? New HBO Show on Mormonism's Beginnings

Post by moksha » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:53 pm

2bizE wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:49 am
For character development and authenticity, what kind of accent did the folks have back then? Did JS and others still have a British accent of sorts? Or had the American accent evolved yet?
Not sure, but it would be fun if young Joseph Smith used the phrase "it came to pass" at the start of some sentences, and "that's the ticket" at the end of those sentences.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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blazerb
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Re: What if? New HBO Show on Mormonism's Beginnings

Post by blazerb » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:33 am

wtfluff wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:12 am
Here's where I always have to insert my (unwanted) skepticism into the "This Show about MORmONism would be awessome!!!" Conversations.

There are many, many, many MORmON themed movies and TV shows that have already been made. The vast majority of them were complete flops. Trey Parker and Co.'s Musical is the only one that has been really successful.

The vast majority of human beings don't care about MORmONism. The majority of baptized MORmONs don't even care about MORmONism. I personally won't be investing any of my saved tithing dollars in the "Next Big MORmON movie." (Well... Maybe if you get Trey and his friends to write the "Movie" I'll change my mind.)


Sorry to be a downer. Carry on...
You are probably right. However, I had a few coworkers who were fascinated by Big Love. I was constantly answering their questions about Mormon culture. I think there is curiosity about unusual relationships. A story about Nauvoo might hit the right buttons if done by HBO or someone else willing to spend the money on production and good writing. The Corporation of the President of the COJCOLDS would certainly condemn the series as inaccurate.

By the way, I don't think Trey and friends always have the magic touch. "Orgazmo" was pretty stupid.

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A New Name
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Re: What if? New HBO Show on Mormonism's Beginnings

Post by A New Name » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:50 pm

Not to be confused with Netfix show "What If". Highly recommended.

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