Miracle or medicine?

[Spicy McHaggis]

I recently caught up with my best friend from childhood. A bit of background, we grew up in the same ward, left on our missions one week apart. We were each good influences on each other. We each have three sons, about the same age.

A few years ago we were skiing and talking about sons going on missions. His older sons didn't go on missions for health reasons and he said he was disappointed that they weren't able to go. I didn't go in to details but my reply was "I'm not disappointed my sons aren't going since I don't take the church seriously anymore". That's all I said, I didn't go in to details or the reasons why. He immediately bore his testimony of how feeling the spirit has confirmed the truthiness of the church, etc. Anytime I've seen him since, he brings up having spiritual witness of the church.

This brings us to a few weeks ago. I went to dinner with him and he told me of a health scare he had. He has a tumor that is affecting his energy & hormones. He immediately said that it's been a miracle, that his sons gave him a blessing and the tumor has shrunk by 1/3 and no longer affects his hormone levels. He followed that up by saying the Docs prescribed medicine and he's been taking the medicine for the last three years. He mentioned that his improvement was a miracle several times, even though he has been taking meds since the tumor was discovered.

I'm not confrontational so I didn't reply with my thoughts, but I wanted to ask if it is a miracle or is it the medicine? TBMs have convinced themselves that anything good is a blessing while ignoring the obvious. If he really had faith in the miracle, he would stop taking medicine and rely on God's gift.

How many times do TBMs have a medical emergency and ignore healthcare in favor of a PH blessing?
Heart attack? Forget the cardiologist and have a blessing.
Fall off a ladder and fracture your femur? Ignore the orthopedic surgeon, get a blessing and go out to finish painting the garage.

Why can't any of them ever see it when it's right in front of them?

[1smartdodog]

Your driving down the street. You get smacked by a semi. You are critically injured. The paramedics who both have extensive training show up and start to work on you. They use all their experience and the tools and gadgets that years of research have provided. They get you stabilized and rush you to the hospital.

In the emergency room the surgeon goes all in using his years of training and experience to bring you back from the brink. If it were not for the modern medical devices at his disposal you would have died

Soon you are out of danger and moved to intensive care to begin recovery.

Two missionaries male in gender happen to be there and offer a blessing. Your distraught spouse says yes. You are unconscious after all.

Next week in church the story spreads how the missionaries saved your life.

Yes it was the missionaries. Screw everyone else who worked so hard to save you. Forget modern science and it’s gadgets that saved you. Because God intervened in the mode of two teenagers with no training in anything but Xbox.

It is so obvious God gets the credit here.


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[Palerider]

I've seen and heard many Christians tell of the miracles that have occurred in their lives. I'm sure their churches are true as well, don't you think?

[wtfluff]

Why can't any of them ever see it when it's right in front of them?

The same way that humans can believe that the earth is flat.

The same way... (I think the list is endless.)

Many of us, when we were in the believing bubble would likely say very similar things.

The human mind is a fascinating organ in the way it can compartmentalize deeply held beliefs like miracle magic oil blessings, right along side completely rational actions, like taking medicine prescribed by a doctor. (Even though it's really the magic that's making your friend better. )

[Palerider]

Two weeks ago I had a pretty bad accident with one of my horses.

My MIL kept pushing my wife to call our Bishop even though neither of us have any interest in the church and haven't been there for years.

I finally told my wife the next time MIL suggests we call the bishop I'm going to inform her that I'm following Bednar's counsel and that I have plenty of faith not to be healed. So why seek a blessing?

[w2mz]

Blessing, all the way.

[Rob4Hope]

Yes it was the missionaries. Screw everyone else who worked so hard to save you. Forget modern science and it’s gadgets that saved you. Because God intervened in the mode of two teenagers with no training in anything but Xbox.

It is so obvious God gets the credit here.

It was GOD who invented the gadgets that saved you. It was GOD who made the training possible for those doctors. It was GOD who intervened and allowed you to be born in a place where emergency medical groups happen to be.

Of course it was GOD. What else could it have been?

Now, had you died, it was your lack of faith.....

[Corsair]

I finally told my wife the next time MIL suggests we call the bishop I'm going to inform her that I'm following Bednar's counsel and that I have plenty of faith not to be healed. So why seek a blessing?

I don't understand what Bednar thinks "faith not to be healed" is going to accomplish. My atheist friends already have this fabled "faith to not be healed."

We really have two complementary problems here. If we go around telling believers of any faith that their faith healing just might be baloney, we will quickly lose friends and, ironically, cause more stress that just might make their affliction worse.

On the other hand, Russell Nelson is a world class doctor and he met with cancer patients as mentioned in the 2018 Christmas devotional and also when Nelson's daughter tragically passed away from cancer. I want to truly offer my condolences and "mourn with those that mourn."

But I also want to ask why the priesthood does not make a difference in either case. It's great when illnesses go away. I am not sure that it's going to help anyone by using additional priesthood power. I truly wish I could be definitively proved wrong.

[Palerider]

I don't understand what Bednar thinks "faith not to be healed" is going to accomplish.

I think Bednar has delusions of grandeur and sees himself as a deep thinker. But he really stuck his foot in it with this "doctrine". My bet is he really wishes he had thought that talk through at least another five or ten minutes.

What he's trying to tell the membership is that God, for whatever reason, does not heal all maladies regardless of our righteousness. Sometimes (actually most times) He just lets nature take it's course and we live with the consequences of experiencing Earth life. So if that is the case, where is the value in calling upon an individual who supposedly has an "in" with God? Bednar literally shows the worthlessness of his own calling. The best he can guarantee are soothing words because a guaranteed healing is beyond his abilities.

So there you have the definition of a " modern day prophet, seer, and revelator."

See "soothesayer."

I for one can receive a blessing of comfort directly from Heavenly Father anytime I want it. I certainly don't need some Apostle wannabe trying to rationalize why his "priesthood" doesn't work the way his church has claimed it did for the past 189 years.