Are youth really leaving?

[Brent]

Gen Z is big on things like social responsibilty, and absolutely have no room in their lives for exclusion of "others". I teach HS in the Boise area and have had openly gay, trans and transistioning students, they recieve nothing but love from the student body. On the other hand LDS kids no longer self-identify as LDS; which they did when i started teaching in 2001.

[Not Buying It]

I think lowering the missionary age was a direct indicator of how worried the Brethren are about losing the youth, and have been for several years now. I’ve always thought they lowered the age to try and get youth out on missions and super indoctrinated before they could start questioning.

Based on the Church’s response, I’d say they think it is a problem, so yes, my guess is more youth really are leaving.

[sunstoned]

My four adult children were out before DW and I left. From what I can tell from neighbours and friends, about half of their children are inactive or have left. I live in South Utah County.

[1smartdodog]

It sure feels like a different church than my youth. Then everyone I knew was active except the occasional outlier that came just to play basketball on Tuesday nights. It sure seems like so many are less active or leaving.

[Thoughtful]

The fact they even considered regularly interviewing 8-11yo shows something, they are scared.

My teens both know tons of active lds kids that are in only to keep parents off their back. Parents are extremely coercive about their kids behavioral devoutness.

The teens who are in love iced coffee, dress fashionably to prom without drama over modesty, say the F wired and OMG, and adore their gay friends.

[Brent]

The fact they even considered regularly interviewing 8-11yo shows something, they are scared.

My teens both know tons of active lds kids that are in only to keep parents off their back. Parents are extremely coercive about their kids behavioral devoutness.

The teens who are in love iced coffee, dress fashionably to prom without drama over modesty, say the F wired and OMG, and adore their gay friends.

I think this "LDS on the Down Low" is something that absolutely escapes the Church hierarchy.

[Thoughtful]

The fact they even considered regularly interviewing 8-11yo shows something, they are scared.

My teens both know tons of active lds kids that are in only to keep parents off their back. Parents are extremely coercive about their kids behavioral devoutness.

The teens who are in love iced coffee, dress fashionably to prom without drama over modesty, say the F wired and OMG, and adore their gay friends.

I think this "LDS on the Down Low" is something that absolutely escapes the Church hierarchy.

The last time my daughter went to camp, the millennial leaders took them to Starbucks on the way home.

I have had multiple 14yo confide to me something like, "I'm not having sex, but I plan to before marriage. If I get birth control, and pregnant anyway, I'll use plan B. I'll abort. I won't put myself through that." They may not be morally nuanced developmentally around that issue, but they also aren't scared of the idea that taking care of themselves first is going to damn them. When I was 14, no one would have voiced that sentiment to a ward member of they even thought it. These kids talk about tampons to their male teachers and boyfriends and don't take sh$t from anyone. LDS patriarchy doesn't paint a heaven that appeals to this crop of girls at all. They don't have time or patience for it.

[JustHangingOn@57]

We had not one, but two missionary "farewells" today. Plus, a sister missionary just returned home after serving a full 18 months. And, a tender mercy, a sister who had mysteriously stopped coming to church several years ago (rumour has it someone offended her) has suddenly started attending SM with her two daughters. Sure, she high tails it literally right after the closing hymn, but it appears that all is well in Northern Utah County.

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

We had a missionary homecoming this weekend as well. Sounds like this sister had a successful mission and even a few stateside mission converts. Seemed by all accounts to be stalwart.

[Red Ryder]

Two things to report.

This weekend we had old family friends in town and the ladies got together for lunch. One of the ladies confided that their 17 year old son decided to announce his unbelief in church and that he has said he isn’t going to go anymore. As parents they are totally lost in what to do about it. Mom is devastated.

Sunday we had a mission farewell and a mission homecoming. The farewell was for a 19 year old sister missionary who in her words has chosen to serve because she has nothing else to do. College wasn’t what she expected, she isn’t dating anyone, and she feels like she wants to experience a mission because one other friend went. She seemed oblivious to what it will entail.

The mission homecoming was the normal routine but what caught my attention was the hero worship of the apostles that visited his stateside mission. He talked about 4 separate apostle visits and the impact it had on his testimony. He knew they were living apostles of the lord Jesus Christ. The robotic tone was off putting and even my wife mentioned the kid was weird.

[Rob4Hope]

For context, I attend church every week (because of DW) and have a calling, but as I have said in prior posts I am 100% out mentally and don't pay tithing. My temple recommend expired recently and I have no interest in renewing it. (DW realized the implications of being temple recommend-less, and promptly went ahead and did a last buy of g's for me that should could keep me in magic underwear for at least the next 100 years )

I live in an upper middle income area of Alpine Ut, with several wards in our stake being very affluent. My observation is that I don't see many people leaving the church. In fact, we've had at least 6 new families move into our ward recently, each one more TBM than the last. I see evidence that some of the youth are leaving, but they are doing the slow fade and without much fanfare. I wholeheartedly agree with a prior poster who observed that the youth who do decide to stay on the path (mission, BYU, marriage) are most definitely all in, hardcore, full on TBM.

JHO,....I am familiar with the area you are talking about. I have family up in the foothills, and my brother married into GA stock there in Alpine. There is a MASSIVE cultural impetus for people to stay in. It isn't just religion that dominates that area--ITS INGRAINED CULTURE! I don't want to sound negative at all, but speaking for myself, I always feel a little weird when I head down into that area, especially up in the foothills where the money starts to show more and more.

I can't put my finger on it exactly, but let me share this. I know someone who is GA stock (and I won't reveal more than that). This person is multi-generationally "house broken" for the cause, and though highly affluent and intelligent, incapable of even considering there are alternative positions. We've talked and it is so frustrating. I mentioned that GBH lied about being financially transparent, and that idea didn't register. In fact, I don't think it was even possible for it to register with this person, despite the intelligent and money.

Somehow the culture and influence in pockets you mention play a role in this. It keeps the youth in, but it also is a kindof of mind-control that seems to be organic in the very fabric of the area.

No offence intended if this comes across badly. But I am curious about your impressions and thoughts?

[Rob4Hope]

Two things to report.

This weekend we had old family friends in town and the ladies got together for lunch. One of the ladies confided that their 17 year old son decided to announce his unbelief in church and that he has said he isn’t going to go anymore. As parents they are totally lost in what to do about it. Mom is devastated.

Sunday we had a mission farewell and a mission homecoming. The farewell was for a 19 year old sister missionary who in her words has chosen to serve because she has nothing else to do. College wasn’t what she expected, she isn’t dating anyone, and she feels like she wants to experience a mission because one other friend went. She seemed oblivious to what it will entail.

The mission homecoming was the normal routine but what caught my attention was the hero worship of the apostles that visited his stateside mission. He talked about 4 separate apostle visits and the impact it had on his testimony. He knew they were living apostles of the lord Jesus Christ. The robotic tone was off putting and even my wife mentioned the kid was weird.

My son left his mission early of his own accord. He said: "Dad, they tell us we are trustworthy, but they don't trust us to make any decisions for ourselves." He wasn't having none of that so came home. It was interesting how the Stake insulated him from the other missionaries getting ready to go. They kept him FAR AWAY from those others, which surprised me and though I understand why, still pissed me off.

Anyway, when I came home after my mission, the falloff rate for RM's staying active was pretty bad. There was a rumor?...that those who were APs often went almost immediately inactive after their missions.

GOSH I would love to see some hard verified stats on this stuff....

[oliblish]

I live in an upper middle income area of Alpine Ut, with several wards in our stake being very affluent. My observation is that I don't see many people leaving the church. In fact, we've had at least 6 new families move into our ward recently, each one more TBM than the last. I see evidence that some of the youth are leaving, but they are doing the slow fade and without much fanfare. I wholeheartedly agree with a prior poster who observed that the youth who do decide to stay on the path (mission, BYU, marriage) are most definitely all in, hardcore, full on TBM.

In many parts of Utah County there is pretty extreme peer pressure to be in the church. My son stopped going to church at 16. Now, about five years later he is considering starting to attend a singles ward. He has zero interest in the church but he has had trouble finding anyone who will date him because so many of the girls are set on a temple marriage. He has friends coming back from missions lately putting even more pressure on him. I really feel bad for him. I am afraid he is going to get sucked back into it and never be able to get out.

[Thoughtful]

For context, I attend church every week (because of DW) and have a calling, but as I have said in prior posts I am 100% out mentally and don't pay tithing. My temple recommend expired recently and I have no interest in renewing it. (DW realized the implications of being temple recommend-less, and promptly went ahead and did a last buy of g's for me that should could keep me in magic underwear for at least the next 100 years )

I live in an upper middle income area of Alpine Ut, with several wards in our stake being very affluent. My observation is that I don't see many people leaving the church. In fact, we've had at least 6 new families move into our ward recently, each one more TBM than the last. I see evidence that some of the youth are leaving, but they are doing the slow fade and without much fanfare. I wholeheartedly agree with a prior poster who observed that the youth who do decide to stay on the path (mission, BYU, marriage) are most definitely all in, hardcore, full on TBM.

JHO,....I am familiar with the area you are talking about. I have family up in the foothills, and my brother married into GA stock there in Alpine. There is a MASSIVE cultural impetus for people to stay in. It isn't just religion that dominates that area--ITS INGRAINED CULTURE! I don't want to sound negative at all, but speaking for myself, I always feel a little weird when I head down into that area, especially up in the foothills where the money starts to show more and more.

I can't put my finger on it exactly, but let me share this. I know someone who is GA stock (and I won't reveal more than that). This person is multi-generationally "house broken" for the cause, and though highly affluent and intelligent, incapable of even considering there are alternative positions. We've talked and it is so frustrating. I mentioned that GBH lied about being financially transparent, and that idea didn't register. In fact, I don't think it was even possible for it to register with this person, despite the intelligent and money.

Somehow the culture and influence in pockets you mention play a role in this. It keeps the youth in, but it also is a kindof of mind-control that seems to be organic in the very fabric of the area.

No offence intended if this comes across badly. But I am curious about your impressions and thoughts?

I know exactly what you mean.

[Rob4Hope]

I live in an upper middle income area of Alpine Ut, with several wards in our stake being very affluent. My observation is that I don't see many people leaving the church. In fact, we've had at least 6 new families move into our ward recently, each one more TBM than the last. I see evidence that some of the youth are leaving, but they are doing the slow fade and without much fanfare. I wholeheartedly agree with a prior poster who observed that the youth who do decide to stay on the path (mission, BYU, marriage) are most definitely all in, hardcore, full on TBM.

In many parts of Utah County there is pretty extreme peer pressure to be in the church. My son stopped going to church at 16. Now, about five years later he is considering starting to attend a singles ward. He has zero interest in the church but he has had trouble finding anyone who will date him because so many of the girls are set on a temple marriage. He has friends coming back from missions lately putting even more pressure on him. I really feel bad for him. I am afraid he is going to get sucked back into it and never be able to get out.

It is really weird when you are surrounded to an extent that you have to leave your neighborhood, your area, and sometimes even YOUR COUNTY to find a more liberal and accepting group to associate with. Most young people can't do this because if they did, parents or others would real them in fast.

GAWD,...its like being in a compound!

I feel sorry for some that run into this. Those who are "IN" by their own choice (or more because they have bitten the hook and are blissfully under the mind-control) find it beneficial: their lives and belief systems are socially isolated and protected. Those who are not in...well, they have a different experience.

My sister was on who was NOT in. When she was 13, she rebelled, and that didn't change until she finally left the state and went to New York. To this day, some 40 year later, there is a complete breakdown of the family over the 'effing Mormon problem!' (as she would call it).

Sad. My family of origin has been virtually torn apart over religion. Love your neighbor ONLY applies when its your "Mormon" neighbors--at least in some of these communities.

[JustHangingOn@57]

No offence intended if this comes across badly. But I am curious about your impressions and thoughts?

I agree 100% with your assessment. I would love to see a documentary on what happens when you take a population of Mormons, with their inherent self ascribed exceptionalism, isolate them (to the northern part of Utah County), then mix in excessive wealth. The resultant culture is fascinating to observe (and live among), but is much too complex to try to describe to anyone who doesn't actually live there.