In Mormon theology A&E must be taken literally. As you said, there is no need for a savior if A&E weren’t real. You can’t call it an allegory. JS taught the garden was in Missouri. He even said a pile of rocks was an alter built by Adam. As recently as a few years ago J Holland said he wasn’t sure how, but that A&E were real. Imagine that, a special witness to Jesus said he wasn’t sure how a core tenant of his religion was real, but that it was.Lloyd Christmas wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:52 pmHagoth wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:05 amI have read a couple of books about Intelligent Design by a LDS biologists. An LDS biologist was an expert witness at the Kitzmiller v. Dover evolution case. I keep seeing the concept of Intelligent Design pop up in LDS conversations and articles. The problem is that Intelligent Design doesn't work for Mormonism. At all.
Intelligent Design is based on the claims that the fingerprints of a celestial designer are embedded in nature in the form of systems and mechanisms that could not possibly have arisen by natural processes but only by a carefully planned and executed act of creation. One example is the ATP synthase in mitochondria: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d5QU7fCWpE
But this answers nothing for Mormonism. Mormon doctrine claims that God has a glorified physical body of flesh and bones. Elohim and Mrs. Elohim, and everyone/thing else came with all of that design already completely developed, as would have also been the case for God's father, and his father, etc. etc. So the identity of this Designer is unknowable to Mormon doctrine but is something much greater and more mysterious than anything Mormons would recognize or identify as God. This means Elohim is not God, just a powerful alien posing as a god, like some wacky Star Trek villain. God, by way of his ancestors, must have evolved via natural means or they were the creation of a greater Designer that would be equally beyond their knowledge and comprehension.
No matter how vigorously you kick the can it just gets you back to the same problem.
I remember being interested in Intelligent Design during my mission, but when I looked deeper, Mormon doctrine and intelligent design don't mix. I remember reading a quote by Bruce R. that described it well. If God used evolution to create, it means that Adam could not have existed in his state prior to the fall. The world could not have existed in the garden of Eden state. And without Adam in that state, there would be no Fall, which would mean no need for an atonement. Without the Atonement there is no need for Christ. While the Church has distanced itself from BRM, his logic still stands. One can't have intelligent design and a Fall/atonement as described by LDS doctrine. Evolution, even guided by a supreme being, does not work with LDS theology.
Once I realized A&E didn’t exist, what testimony I had left disappeared.