Kwaku the Deceiver

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consiglieri
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Kwaku the Deceiver

Post by consiglieri » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:17 pm

I put up a podcast title "Kwaku the Deceiver" last Sunday.

https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/201 ... -deceiver/

It has ignited such a firestorm of controversy on Bill Reel's FB page, among other places, that I put out a new special edition podcast just now responding to some of the questions that have been raised.

https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/201 ... waku-town/

Hope you enjoy it!

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græy
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Re: Kwaku the Deceiver

Post by græy » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:21 am

I'm just getting to these episodes today. I started off with Kwaku's youtube video, but only made it a few minutes before I had to turn it off.

He actually makes the argument that if the papyri matched the Book of Abraham, that wouldn't prove anything. This is paraphrasing, but he actually says that would make JS "just another guy who did some regular translation."

No!

No! No one in the United States and possibly no one else in the world could have done a translation like that. The Rosetta stone had only just been deciphered and the very first Egyptian translations were just getting started. It wouldn't prove anything!? It would prove he was a f***ing prophet!

If that is the best argument he has... If that is all it takes to buy a believer, then... I don't know what. He's just... lost.

/rant
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: Kwaku the Deceiver

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:29 am

Great episode. These young heavily indoctrinated mormon youtubers drive me nuts as they have the ear of some relatives with their dogmatic zealousness.

consiglieri
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Re: Kwaku the Deceiver

Post by consiglieri » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:57 pm

Kwaku just posted his video in response to my latest podcast. The first thing out of the gate he's trying to out me!

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wtfluff
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Re: Kwaku the Deceiver

Post by wtfluff » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:25 pm

consiglieri wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:57 pm
Kwaku just posted his video in response to my latest podcast. The first thing out of the gate he's trying to out me!
I guess he doesn't know you "outed" yourself long ago?

Then again, the (metaphorical) blinders he wears are... Well they're HUGE!
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Brilliant.

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Hagoth
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Re: Kwaku the Deceiver

Post by Hagoth » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:36 pm

consiglieri wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:57 pm
Kwaku just posted his video in response to my latest podcast. The first thing out of the gate he's trying to out me!
I can't wait for your followup. He has no idea what he has unleashed.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: Kwaku the Deceiver

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:13 pm

consiglieri wrote:Kwaku just posted his video in response to my latest podcast. The first thing out of the gate he's trying to out me!
That was painful to watch. Doxxing isn't a very classy move on Quackoo's part.

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græy
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Re: Kwaku the Deceiver

Post by græy » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:51 pm

consiglieri wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:57 pm
Kwaku just posted his video in response to my latest podcast. The first thing out of the gate he's trying to out me!
Ugh... That's was painful to watch. That kid has no class. He refers to himself as a"YouTube comedian" which does reflect the level of consideration he puts into his presentation and demeanor. If this is the level of apologetics that church money supports and pays for I think they should be very concerned for their future.

He is right about one thing, he is a joke.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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Just This Guy
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Re: Kwaku the Deceiver

Post by Just This Guy » Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:27 pm

I'm still working through these episodes, so I may be missing something.

Kwatu says up front that the whole premise is a case of trying to prove a negative. JS must me inspired because he didn't have access to any of other materials. All it takes is one piece of evidence and the whole argument is blown.

When your whole argument is based on a logical fallacy, and one of the easiest ones too pop at that, it's not surprising when the only way is to go down from there.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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Culper Jr.
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Re: Kwaku the Deceiver

Post by Culper Jr. » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:00 am

Wow, I think Kwaku was a little butt-hurt there.. I was trying to follow his rebuttal, but it was less than clear and it was just miserable to watch with all of the personal attacks sprinkled in. I ultimately decided I had better things to do with my life than listen to an "internet comedian" try to defend the indefensible. At the end of the day, a funerary text is not the writings of Abraham, and JS's egyptian alphabet is sad comedy.

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Hagoth
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Re: Kwaku the Deceiver

Post by Hagoth » Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:05 am

I hope Kwaku and his ilk understand that this type of apologetics is only a form of desperately preaching to the choir. You have to step over a field of ugly boulders before you can even consider the pebbles that he's sifting through. Wouldn't you love to see him presenting to a room of Egyptologists and Ancient Near East historians, and Bible scholars? I'd also love to see a flat-earther do a presentation at a geophysics conference. I think that would be roughly equivalent.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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jfro18
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Re: Kwaku the Deceiver

Post by jfro18 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:56 am

This whole thing is really interesting to me not because of who Kwaku is or even how RFM responded to his videos, but because it really shows the divide between those who are trying to keep others in through apologetics in the 'Google era' vs those who are using evidence and scholarship to really detail why it just cant work.

I pointed this out elsewhere, but the most telling line of Kwaku's first video (I have not watched the second nor listened to RFM's response yet) is this:

"If the Book of Abraham was translated exactly by the papyri we have, it would not be interesting, would it? It would just mean Joseph translated something."

There's no way in hell that a Mormon leader would've said this until we found the 'missing' papyri and got the Rosetta Stone, etc, proved the long scroll theory wrong, etc. In fact, if Joseph Smith had translated the papyri correctly (and it actually did mentioned Abraham), that would be shouted from the rooftops as proof that there is a true and living church.

I mean - that quote alone disqualifies Kwaku from any serious consideration, because he's stating up front that not only did Joseph translate it wrong, but that it's a GOOD thing he translated it wrong.

They have nowhere else to go, and they know it.

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moksha
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Re: Kwaku the Deceiver

Post by moksha » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:23 pm

The doxxing was definitely an underhanded form of LDS retribution, but it made me think that Kwaku will become the leader of the next generation of LDS apologists, who will let no ethics stand in the way of defending the 1000-Year Reich Gospel.

BTW, it is pronounced Quake-Koo.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Just This Guy
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Re: Kwaku the Deceiver

Post by Just This Guy » Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:14 am

Back in high school, I came up with a design for a way to run an internal combustion engine off of water using electricity to split it into it's component hydrogen and oxygen. I thought this was something that I could use to change the world. I discussed it with my friends and we thought we could use it to get mega rich. Fast forward a few years and some college engineering courses later, With things like Conservation of Energy and Thermodynamics well understood, I now can see why this had not only been attempted but always failed. I even had a professor who had a small setup of this very concept to demonstrate how it takes much more energy input than you get out. Damn physics.

I see this Kwaku kid as the same place I was two decades ago. He has an idea that sounds good him. His friends all tell him how smart he is and how great the idea is. Meanwhile, all the adults who have really studied the topic can see the glaring shortcomings and why it is so foolish. We can tell him he is wrong, but he doesn't want to listen to the "haters" that are trying to teach him something. At that point we just do a Picard face-palm.

I have watched a bit of his videos and this kid is a lot like my high school self trying to give a lecture to industry. He is soooo far out of his dept, but is so full of himself that he can't see it. I'm not sure if I should feel sorry for him or laugh at the absurdity of his position.

The only problem here is that despite being way out of his league, he goes off and blames everyone for attacking him instead of seeing his own problems. I don't know if this is typical millennial attitude, a spoiled kid, or LDS apologetics talking here.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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Hagoth
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Re: Kwaku the Deceiver

Post by Hagoth » Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:16 am

jfro18 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:56 am
I pointed this out elsewhere, but the most telling line of Kwaku's first video (I have not watched the second nor listened to RFM's response yet) is this:

"If the Book of Abraham was translated exactly by the papyri we have, it would not be interesting, would it? It would just mean Joseph translated something."

There's no way in hell that a Mormon leader would've said this until we found the 'missing' papyri and got the Rosetta Stone, etc, proved the long scroll theory wrong, etc. In fact, if Joseph Smith had translated the papyri correctly (and it actually did mentioned Abraham), that would be shouted from the rooftops as proof that there is a true and living church.
If it was what Joseph claimed it was it would be the single most important religious document in the world.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Just This Guy
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Re: Kwaku the Deceiver

Post by Just This Guy » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:51 am

Bill Reel had an interesting point. This Kwaku kid is small potatoes. He's one step step above total unknown. His videos only get a couple thousand hits on average after months. He is nowhere near going viral. From what I can tell, his rebuttal to RFM is his most popular video yet at about 4,500 views.

For comparison, Bill and RFM on the other hand get an average of 5-7K downloads of their podcasts in the first week and tens of thousands over their life.

If anything, the whole back and forth is giving this Kwaku kid something he was never able to get before: Visibility. If he is smart, he could use this whole thing with RFM as proof of how right he is in his calling. He is being "attacked" by the evil anti-Mormon liars and help to get him into a position of viability in the apologetic world and the world of Youtube content creators. He may even be able to get his videos to start making money for him.

The more people talk about him, the more interest is going to be generated in his contents and the more $ he could make.

In the end, the best thing to do may be to let it go and like this kid sink back into the obscurity from whence he came.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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jfro18
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Re: Kwaku the Deceiver

Post by jfro18 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:38 am

Just This Guy wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:51 am
If anything, the whole back and forth is giving this Kwaku kid something he was never able to get before: Visibility. If he is smart, he could use this whole thing with RFM as proof of how right he is in his calling. He is being "attacked" by the evil anti-Mormon liars and help to get him into a position of viability in the apologetic world and the world of Youtube content creators. He may even be able to get his videos to start making money for him.

The more people talk about him, the more interest is going to be generated in his contents and the more $ he could make.

In the end, the best thing to do may be to let it go and like this kid sink back into the obscurity from whence he came.
That's my thinking at this point too.

Kwaku gave the game away when he said it would actually be uninteresting if the papyri said what Joseph Smith said it was... which is the most absurd apologetics imaginable.

To be fair though that's what LDS apologetic/critical circles are though - small groups that think they are bigger than they are.

The Mormon church is 100% irrelevant in the grand scheme of things... those who care enough to argue over it's truth are part of an even smaller and less significant group.

That said, RFM and Bill are punching down and that only helps Kwaku... especially since Kwaku is just ignoring the criticism and making videos that pick and choose what he wants to talk about. Peak apologetics, really.

If there was any chance the Book of Abraham had a legitimate claim to truth, the church would boldly proclaim it from the rooftops... and that's not happening. Hugh Nibley apologetics have all been demolished, and so the essay gives you a 'choose your own adventure' map with an endgame of searching your feelings for its truth.

In other words, the days of trying to make the Book of Abraham a legitimate document are long over and trying to play to Kwaku's level is just pointless. You're not going to convince someone who doesn't want to see it, and you're certainly not going to make inroads with his group by trying.

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Hermey
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Re: Kwaku the Deceiver

Post by Hermey » Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:47 am

I asked my 22 yr. old son if he was familiar with or had heard of Kwaku. His reply? “Yeah. He’s a tool, an idiot.”

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Just This Guy
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Re: Kwaku the Deceiver

Post by Just This Guy » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:01 am

Hermey wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:47 am
I asked my 22 yr. old son if he was familiar with or had heard of Kwaku. His reply? “Yeah. He’s a tool, an idiot.”
I would actually be interested in your sons reasoning behind that.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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moksha
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Re: Kwaku the Deceiver

Post by moksha » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:29 am

Kwaku El - Mallard Son of Krypton
Image
This Reformed Egyptian writing proves my case!


Read on another board that Kwaku is being funded by the More Good Foundation, the group behind the 1906 San Francisco earthquake, the Bay of Pigs Invasion, and the Mormon Interpreter.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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