Magic

[Hagoth]

The poor priest who stumbles a bit while saying the sacrament prayer must repeat it over and over until the words are perfect. That my friends is not a prayer, it's a spell.

If the tip of your toe doesn't get completely submerged at baptism Jesus can't accept you. Definitely magic.

Beyond the words, the notion that these ordinances are necessary for salvation is magical. I have heard so many testimonies talking about how someone felt when they missed the sacrament for a week or two. Taking it (with the right hand, of course) becomes this magical elixir for happiness in the coming week.

Which brings us back to protective magic. Some fear that their forcefield will collapse and God will allow harm to come to them. It's like a rabbit's foot that evaporates after a week and you need to re-up. I thought it was supposed to be a symbolic reminder of Jesus' sacrifice, not a warding spell.

[Emower]

One of the worst is mission presidents blaming struggling areas on the missionaries not being righteous and obedient enough. I wonder how that plays out in places like Finland or Japan that are very difficult places to gain converts.

I'll tell you how it works out. Those poor missionaries get more and more worked up, blame themselves more and more, read scriptures and pray more and more. This eventually leads to a black cloud of depression that descends like a smother on those poor missionaries approximately 1 hour before they have to leave in the morning and magically lessens as soon as they are done for the evening. Rinse and repeat for 6 months and pretty soon the missionaries are in such a state they they are thinking suicidal thoughts because they can't bear the thought of asking to go home. Those poor missionaries know that if the death is staged in a way to look accidental at least they will get a heros funeral. "He died on his mission, how noble!" Eventually the depression will be so evident that people will quit writing because they don't know what to say. If that missionary is lucky this will pass, they will eventually find some mental pathways allowing them to compartmentalize mission and church culture (a great trick which will probably keep them in the church longer) and that year of hell will fade into their memories as this one really awful time in their life. Those are the lucky ones. Others in their missions will have quiet mental breakdowns, and will never be the same again, and their mothers will threaten to sue the mission president when they arrive home quite altered.

That was my experience in Norway.

[Keewon]

... If that missionary is lucky this will pass, they will eventually find some mental pathways allowing them to compartmentalize mission and church culture (a great trick which will probably keep them in the church longer) and that year of hell will fade into their memories as this one really awful time in their life. Those are the lucky ones. Others in their missions will have quiet mental breakdowns, and will never be the same again, and their mothers will threaten to sue the mission president when they arrive home quite altered.

I had no idea some missionaries' "two best years of their lives" were such hell until years after my own mission. I thought my mission president was the norm- he taught us to teach people about Christ and trust Christ in our own lives (sins and all), and that we should relax and enjoy being in the Lord's service. I came to love my mission, and still don't know how to explain some of the mystical, life-changing experiences I had. I thought all missionaries were this way.

I'm sorry for the hell you went through, Emower. What a burden at such a vulnerable time of life. Wow. Mission president poker.

[sunstoned]

Writing a person's name down, delivering it to the temple where it is added to a sack with other names and then laid on the altar and prayed over by a circle of people dressed in robes.

Asking people to give money to the organization before they take care of family needs like food and shelter,

Hosanna shout with white handkerchiefs could be seen as a little strange.

[moksha]

The "Dusting of Boots" ritual of desecration always seemed a bit odd. Not certain if other faith traditions have anything similar to it. Well, maybe Wicca... although I think they try to stay away from the dark arts. Of course to a TBM, this might seem as normal of occurrence as exploding popcorn in an apricot tree or Brigham Young's head taking on the holographic likeness of Joseph Smith.

This actually has Biblical precedent in the New Testament. Matt. 10:14

"And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet."

So would Protestants and Catholics practice this dusting procedure more as a Taylor Swift Shake it Off dance move or as a curse leveled at enemies?

[Emower]

The poor priest who stumbles a bit while saying the sacrament prayer must repeat it over and over until the words are perfect. That my friends is not a prayer, it's a spell.

If the tip of your toe doesn't get completely submerged at baptism Jesus can't accept you. Definitely magic.

I had a conversation about this with someone the other day. I would like to do more research about what the Mormon Scripture says about ordinances and the accuracy of the wording. I recall a few scriptures in the D&C that talk about the Holy Spirit of Promise sealing things and I think those scriptures mention the accuracy. But if they dont, and the emphasis comes from some leader somewhere, sometime, it is possible that the intent was quite benign. And no, I am not going to argue that the members dont see things these days in a magical view, because they do. But I watched a series on Netflix a while back about masonry. That series showed the emphasis they placed on getting the sayings just right, and showed the level of work that some people put into memorizing the scripts perfectly. It was quite a bit of effort. Those people indicated that the perfectness reflected their commitment to the principles of the organization. They didn't put any stock into masonry providing salvation, yet they continued to insist that everything was perfect. That is an alternate way of looking at the Mormon ordinances, and I think one which a select few member might actually do. I have certainly seen a bishop wave a priest on after the 5th try, even though it was not right.

[Random]

You bring up an excellent point. The exception.

I heard it (this superstition) even when I lived in se Arizona and the temple was about 3 hours away. I don't recall if it was there or in a place where temples were closer, but I heard a person or two say they always kept their temple bags/suitcases in their car so they could decide to go on the spur of the moment (thus, the devil could not cause something to happen to prevent them from attending). And people did fight "opposition" to get to the temple even on temple nights.

Things happening often seemed to be out of their control. It made me wonder if there was something to the idea of each person having the power to bring obstacles into their lives (or clear away obstacles). Some of it, though, was being stressed, I'm sure, so messing up something.

Never talk about when you plan on attending the temple, Satan can hear you and will stifle your plans.

It seems like people said this all the time when I was an active member, but I never had a problem like that. I could make plans. I could make them known. And it was totally up to me whether I went or not. Now, a couple of times I was depending on somebody else to get me to the temple because it was so far away, and then there were problems with "the Devil interfering."

I never head that one. If that is the case, then how come the can announce over the pulpit ward/stake temple trips? Isn't that inviting the devil to insure problems?

In my area, due to the logistics of temple trips (2.5 hrs away, assuming good traffic) you HAVE to talk about them, even more so if you are carpooling. So does this only apply if you are blessed to have a temple down the street?

[Random]

The interesting thing about this is that I have recently heard a different take. I've been told that, taken in context, God was talking to the priests who were skimming off the top (and then some) so that the poor were not being helped like they should. The message was to the priests, not to the poor who could not pay the priests.

Tithing as "Fire Insurance" and somehow magically make your finances better.

We have friends who came to the point financially that the choice was either to pay tithing or pay their mortgage. The kind of moment where their faith was being severely tested. (You can see where this is going, can't you?)

Well, they passed the test. They skipped their mortgage and paid their tithing. And lost their house.

The Malachi passage is very explicit: "Prove me now herewith, and see if I will not open the windows of heaven". It's the language of a scientific test. But somehow only the faith promoting stories end up in the story mill...

[Random]

It took me years, maybe decades, before I had to admit this did not work. No divine help was ever forthcoming, even when the name(s) was put into several temples. Prayers from friends and relatives seem like they can be powerful (even if they're praying against my choices, sometimes), but stick a name in a bag and have people pray over it who couldn't care less (they don't even know who their praying for) just doesn't cut it. Worse than useless because when the divine help or miracle doesn't happen, it does some damage to the psyche, I think (unless one is good at explaining it away).

Writing a person's name down, delivering it to the temple where it is added to a sack with other names and then laid on the altar and prayed over by a circle of people dressed in robes.

[RubinHighlander]

A prophet of god out with his son on some back roads; prays to know which is the right road to take, makes the turn and ends up at a dead end. God told them to take the wrong road so they would have extra confidence that the other turn was the right one. Miraclish enough for a general Fing Conference!

[RubinHighlander]

Prophet of god goes to visit a terminally ill friend in the hospital. The friend dressed up in his Sunday best so he's ready to take up his bed and walk when the Prophet gives him a blessing and heals him. They both have a laugh about that joke. The Prophet leaves, the friends dies and that's the magic miracle: the friends enduring to the end of his life like a stalwart TBM! Miraclish enough for a Fing Conference talk!

[RubinHighlander]

Lost my car keys, prayed, found my car keys. Praise Be!

[RubinHighlander]

Testimony meeting: "My special dress got washed with a crayon and looked like it was ruined. I prayed to HF and washed it again and the stain was gone!"

Miracle! (Not Tide)