NOM

What practices among Mormons are normal, but to a person on the outside would be perceived as magic, the occult, or voodoo?

A few to start with:
Priesthood blessings
Patriarchal blessings
Laying a cane (coffin cane) on a persons body to heal them.
Dousing rod used by Oliver
Seer stones

Modern day examples of superstition:

Sabbath day observance giving some kind of physical protection. IE Johnny wouldn't have gotten hurt if he didn't play basketball on Sunday.

Wearing Sunday clothes all day on Sunday and not watching TV is a sacrifice that will please Jesus and bring blessings.

Praying that the food will nourish and strengthen our bodies.

Fasting bringing super meta-physical results over just praying for something.

Never talk about when you plan on attending the temple, Satan can hear you and will stifle your plans.

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:43 pm

Sabbath day observance giving some kind of physical protection. IE Johnny wouldn't have gotten hurt if he didn't play basketball on Sunday.

This is good. That made me think of the magic properties of garments.

Another thing from the mission field:

Can't swim because satan controls the water.

Also, all the stories of terrible opposition that arise as soon as someone commits to a baptismal date.

Gift of tongues among modern missionaries being all about learning a language super fast and having moments of perfect fluency when the spirit is super strong in a lesson.

During fast and testimony meeting there is always a crazy person that talks about how the spirit helped them decide between 2 arbitrary paths that would make no consequential difference in their life, but by golly they know the HG saved them from imminent doom.

Belief in invisible beings that influences humans to do good or evil: Magic.

Belief in a ghost (holy, friendly, or any otherwise) that influences humans: Magic.

Using the phrase: "And then a miracle happened" to explain the outcome of a situation: Magic.

Never talk about when you plan on attending the temple, Satan can hear you and will stifle your plans.

I am old enough to remember the GC conference talk this was discussed in. The speaker was very explicit: don't pray out loud. The devil can't hear your thoughts, but God can. And you don't want the devil to know your thoughts now, do you?

Even as a TBM this sounded odd.

Keewon wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:21 pm

Never talk about when you plan on attending the temple, Satan can hear you and will stifle your plans.

I am old enough to remember the GC conference talk this was discussed in. The speaker was very explicit: don't pray out loud. The devil can't hear your thoughts, but God can. And you don't want the devil to know your thoughts now, do you?

Even as a TBM this sounded odd.

No waaaay.....

Heavenly Father has a parental control block on all human prayers that Satan can't hack past. All prayers are highly encrypted. The dark web is completely clueless on that score.

The "Dusting of Boots" ritual of desecration always seemed a bit odd. Not certain if other faith traditions have anything similar to it. Well, maybe Wicca... although I think they try to stay away from the dark arts. Of course to a TBM, this might seem as normal of occurrence as exploding popcorn in an apricot tree or Brigham Young's head taking on the holographic likeness of Joseph Smith.

Garments being a protection. Like the interview with the guy who said they protected him from a fire in a place crash.
Tithing as "Fire Insurance" and somehow magically make your finances better.

moksha wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:21 am

The "Dusting of Boots" ritual of desecration always seemed a bit odd. Not certain if other faith traditions have anything similar to it. Well, maybe Wicca... although I think they try to stay away from the dark arts. Of course to a TBM, this might seem as normal of occurrence as exploding popcorn in an apricot tree or Brigham Young's head taking on the holographic likeness of Joseph Smith.

This actually has Biblical precedent in the New Testament. Matt. 10:14

"And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet."

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:43 pm

Never talk about when you plan on attending the temple, Satan can hear you and will stifle your plans.

It seems like people said this all the time when I was an active member, but I never had a problem like that. I could make plans. I could make them known. And it was totally up to me whether I went or not. Now, a couple of times I was depending on somebody else to get me to the temple because it was so far away, and then there were problems with "the Devil interfering."

Random wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:30 am

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:43 pm

Never talk about when you plan on attending the temple, Satan can hear you and will stifle your plans.

It seems like people said this all the time when I was an active member, but I never had a problem like that. I could make plans. I could make them known. And it was totally up to me whether I went or not. Now, a couple of times I was depending on somebody else to get me to the temple because it was so far away, and then there were problems with "the Devil interfering."

I never head that one. If that is the case, then how come the can announce over the pulpit ward/stake temple trips? Isn't that inviting the devil to insure problems?

In my area, due to the logistics of temple trips (2.5 hrs away, assuming good traffic) you HAVE to talk about them, even more so if you are carpooling. So does this only apply if you are blessed to have a temple down the street?

Tithing as "Fire Insurance" and somehow magically make your finances better.

We have friends who came to the point financially that the choice was either to pay tithing or pay their mortgage. The kind of moment where their faith was being severely tested. (You can see where this is going, can't you?)

Well, they passed the test. They skipped their mortgage and paid their tithing. And lost their house.

The Malachi passage is very explicit: "Prove me now herewith, and see if I will not open the windows of heaven". It's the language of a scientific test. But somehow only the faith promoting stories end up in the story mill...

In Mormon living rooms all across America on the night before the first day of school, Mormon families gather and the father (never, ever the mother) puts his hands on the head of each school-age child in turn and gives them a father's blessing, which apparently is no more efficacious than chance at producing good grades and keeping kids from temptation. But even at my most believing I always thought it was weird when my dad did it, and really hated it when my wife asked me to do the same for my children. I'm all for heartfelt expressions of love between parents and children, but personally I think a) they should equally available to parents of both sex and b) ought not be so uncomfortable, culty, and bizarro weird.

The poor priest who stumbles a bit while saying the sacrament prayer must repeat it over and over until the words are perfect. That my friends is not a prayer, it's a spell.

If the tip of your toe doesn't get completely submerged at baptism Jesus can't accept you. Definitely magic.

Hagoth wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:32 am

The poor priest who stumbles a bit while saying the sacrament prayer must repeat it over and over until the words are perfect. That my friends is not a prayer, it's a spell.

If the tip of your toe doesn't get completely submerged at baptism Jesus can't accept you. Definitely magic.

A spell - now that's funny. Making a priest start over if he doesn't get it word perfect is like when Harry Potter and Ron Weasley can't get the spell to work because they mispronounce Wingardium Leviosa.

I think in general many people not Mormons believe you can pray for something and get it, like car keys. Or maybe pray for sick people to get better. That’s not so much magic as it is superstition.

I think Mormons go over the top when they apply behavior to some me kind of protection. Garments keep me from dying in a fire. Playing hymns on Sunday in my suit keeps an earthquake from happening. Or even a little bottle of oil has some magical healing properties. The problem with this magic is you have to keep intensifying you behavior to keep God happy.


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Hagoth wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:32 am

The poor priest who stumbles a bit while saying the sacrament prayer must repeat it over and over until the words are perfect. That my friends is not a prayer, it's a spell.

If the tip of your toe doesn't get completely submerged at baptism Jesus can't accept you. Definitely magic.

Beyond the words, the notion that these ordinances are necessary for salvation is magical. I have heard so many testimonies talking about how someone felt when they missed the sacrament for a week or two. Taking it (with the right hand, of course) becomes this magical elixir for happiness in the coming week.

One of the worst is mission presidents blaming struggling areas on the missionaries not being righteous and obedient enough. I wonder how that plays out in places like Finland or Japan that are very difficult places to gain converts.