Seer Stone Video

[Hagoth]

I'm not sure if this video has been discussed here before:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKiJOAWNyAk
Is it just me or can you see this guy internally trying to convince himself that all of this makes perfect sense?

I love the conclusion: "God can speak to Joseph Smith however he wants to, damnit!" Ok, I added the last word, but it's implied.

[jfro18]

I don't know if it was discussed here or not, but yeah it's a complete trainwreck.

And once again they completely lie about the use of the term urim and thummim (not to mention with the U&T actually was).

And the idea that this is like an iphone and the hat is to block out the sun is insane the moment you actually try to think about it critically. I mean... it's country magic and there's no way around it.

[deacon blues]

I left a comment. Just a reference for a different point of view.

[Corsair]

There's a level of cluelessness going on that unintentionally makes these two people look weirdly ignorant. Here's a direct quote from the video starting at 3:42:

"But for some people it's still a little bit uncomfortable to think about that seer stone. Why do you think that is?
"That's a good question. I don't know why that is."

Seriously? You "don't know why that is"? This is a ridiculous failure of imagination on their part. A big part of the reason is that it manages a glorious trifecta of looking:

1. Incredibly silly
2. suspiciously ocultic
3. largely like Joseph was pulling a big scam

Rock in the hat is still not mentioned in the general curriculum. Generations of missionaries told unintentional lies when confronted by this silliness by Evangelicals who of course knew the real story. We will see if the institutional church is brave enough to put this information in the Sunday School "Come Follow Me" manual in 2021 for the Book of Mormon year or 2022 for the Church History year.

As usual, there is no reference to the times that Bruce McConkie and Joseph Fielding Smith said this was false. There is no explanation why the church avoided the translation details, but options 1, 2, and 3 above are certainly the unspoken reason. Another point that is unlikely to pointed out is how South Park was so astonishingly accurate in how it portrayed the whole process.

[jfro18]

There's a level of cluelessness going on that unintentionally makes these two people look weirdly ignorant. Here's a direct quote from the video starting at 3:42:

"But for some people it's still a little bit uncomfortable to think about that seer stone. Why do you think that is?
"That's a good question. I don't know why that is."

Seriously? You "don't know why that is"? This is a ridiculous failure of imagination on their part. A big part of the reason is that it manages a glorious trifecta of looking:

1. Incredibly silly
2. suspiciously ocultic
3. largely like Joseph was pulling a big scam

Rock in the hat is still not mentioned in the general curriculum. Generations of missionaries told unintentional lies when confronted by this silliness by Evangelicals who of course knew the real story. We will see if the institutional church is brave enough to put this information in the Sunday School "Come Follow Me" manual in 2021 for the Book of Mormon year or 2022 for the Church History year.

As usual, there is no reference to the times that Bruce McConkie and Joseph Fielding Smith said this was false. There is no explanation why the church avoided the translation details, but options 1, 2, and 3 above are certainly the unspoken reason. Another point that is unlikely to pointed out is how South Park was so astonishingly accurate in how it portrayed the whole process.

This is very well put - I want to print it out and send a framed copy to the church history dept.

[Keewon]

This is very well put - I want to print it out and send a framed copy to the church history dept.

I'm sure the church history department is well aware of all this.

I remember the first time I stumbled across a bit of history that contradicted the official line (I found an old copy of the endowment ceremony containing the Adam God doctrine) and approached a church historian about it. I was convinced this must be a vicious anti-mormon production. No, he explained, it's all valid. He then asked "what are you going to do about it"?

Still not sure what he meant by his question. What do you do when you find out at least some of what you've been taught has been white washed and air brushed? You begin to lose your trust, that's what. Not sure what else a rational person could do.

Maybe become a church historian.

[sunstoned]

Another issue with the stone in the hat translation process, is where do the plates fit in? If the plates were not used in the "translation" process, then why did Moroni lugged these things 2000 miles to NY?

[moksha]

Seems that this video is assuming viewers will have suffered brain damage prior to watching that would render them malleable to this explanation.

[Yobispo]

I left a comment. Just a reference for a different point of view.

Hey Deacon, I just left a comment, too, but there were no other comments. Hmmmm....

[Corsair]

I remember the first time I stumbled across a bit of history that contradicted the official line (I found an old copy of the endowment ceremony containing the Adam God doctrine) and approached a church historian about it. I was convinced this must be a vicious anti-mormon production. No, he explained, it's all valid. He then asked "what are you going to do about it"?

Hey, Mr. Historian, how about I show the complete South Park episode of "All About the Mormons" to the youth in my stake? Is there anything false in the episode? No, there really is not. Is there an equally helpful church video to counter South Park? No, there really is not.

[wtfluff]

I remember the first time I stumbled across a bit of history that contradicted the official line (I found an old copy of the endowment ceremony containing the Adam God doctrine) and approached a church historian about it. I was convinced this must be a vicious anti-mormon production. No, he explained, it's all valid. He then asked "what are you going to do about it"?

Hey, Mr. Historian, how about I show the complete South Park episode of "All About the Mormons" to the youth in my stake? Is there anything false in the episode? No, there really is not. Is there an equally helpful church video to counter South Park? No, there really is not.

Well... There is the new "Cartoon" Magic Rock™ video...

(Yes, South Park is still more accurate.)

[RubinHighlander]

I left a comment. Just a reference for a different point of view.

Was it deleted? Showed zero comments when I when there.

All I could think of when watching those two mental gymnasts work their way through the TSCC historical obstacle course was "Those poor fools." It was really sad to me because I was there with many of the other issues for so long, like the DNA evidence.

I noticed how hard they pushed the U&T, trying to keep that in there as a credible artifact; then as they talked about what the more accurate artists depiction would look like, JS' face in the hat, the picture they used was him shading out the light from the hat with his hand, but didn't actually have his face down in it. Oh my gods I still can't believe I bought into any of it all those years!

[wtfluff]

I noticed how hard they pushed the U&T, trying to keep that in there as a credible artifact; then as they talked about what the more accurate artists depiction would look like, JS' face in the hat, the picture they used was him shading out the light from the hat with his hand, but didn't actually have his face down in it. Oh my gods I still can't believe I bought into any of it all those years!

I find this part hilarious. Even when they talk about the truth, they are still incapable of actually depicting it in any of their videos.

Even the "Now You Know" animated version doesn't show Joe actually stuffing his face into the hat. Just peering with his head tilted down a bit. Even as they try to tell the truth... They can't.

As already mentioned: Thank Lakshmi for South Park actually showing us the Truth™ because LD$-Inc. seems to be incapable of doing so.

[Hagoth]

I noticed they used the iPhone comparison. Today I was listening to RFM's Elder Snow podcast and he also brought up the iPhone as an analog to the seer stone. Maybe they should put that thing in an MRI machine and let us see what kind of circuitry is inside. Otherwise a better analogy would be a magic pane of glass that has writing appear on it. But of course, that just takes us back to magic.

[Corsair]

I noticed they used the iPhone comparison. Today I was listening to RFM's Elder Snow podcast and he also brought up the iPhone as an analog to the seer stone. Maybe they should put that thing in an MRI machine and let us see what kind of circuitry is inside. Otherwise a better analogy would be a magic pane of glass that has writing appear on it. But of course, that just takes us back to magic.

The iPhone analogy is silly. I have to note that this explanation would have not worked before Steve Jobs produced the iPhone in 2007. I hope the apostles have appreciation for an atheist like Jobs producing a helpful apologetic explanation. We also note that the iPhone has a brightness setting and I almost never need to go into a dark room to view my phone. Why can a modern corporation produce a bright enough screen and God cannot? Was the Seer Stone battery low after Joseph kept trying to swipe right on Tinder?

There is one really good way to clear up this seer stone business. Have Russell Nelson use it successfully. There is no end to things he could translate with it starting with the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon. We may not have the plates any longer, but that did not stop Joseph Smith from producing the Book of Moses or from any of the extant Book of Mormon. Prove that the seer stone works and all of the questions will disappear.

[Hagoth]

Why can a modern corporation produce a bright enough screen and God cannot?

Especially considering that the other famous magic rocks in the BoM were empowered by God specifically to produce illumination so those poor Jaredites wouldn't be stuck in floating septic tanks for a year in total darkness.

There is one really good way to clear up this seer stone business. Have Russell Nelson use it successfully.

After all Joseph Smith made it clear that the definition of a seer requires that they possess and use these stones. Isn't Pres. Nelson is sustained twice each year as a prophet, seer, and revelator?

[deacon blues]

I left a comment. Just a reference for a different point of view.

Hey Deacon, I just left a comment, too, but there were no other comments. Hmmmm....

That's weird. I just went back to it and saw my comment but it was the only one.

[deacon blues]

I’m presuming President Nelson has the keys to operate a seer stone, but with all the other keys he has it might be hard to find the right one.

[Just This Guy]

I’m presuming President Nelson has the keys to operate a seer stone, but with all the other keys he has it might be hard to find the right one.

It doesn't help that he lot his keys and has been praying for god to help him find them but god is soo backlogged on finding key requests that he has yet to get around to ol' Rusty. God told tried getting them a retractable key chain, but Tommy lost that years ago.

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

Here'a another video from Brad Wilcox:

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... u_book_of/