Pres Nelson's BYU Speech Today

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consiglieri
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Pres Nelson's BYU Speech Today

Post by consiglieri » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:28 am

Just got done listening to the much heralded address of President Nelson on YouTube.

It was a shocker.

He frames his talk as teaching five "truths" the Lord has inspired him to tell the young adults.

But it is clear this is an attempt to defend not only the 2015 Policy of Exclusion, but also its reversal in April of 2019.

This is truth number four.

Everything else is built around it.

The first truth is that everybody is a child of God and God loves everybody perfectly and infinitely.

The second truth is that truth is eternal and unchanging, as opposed to policies which can change.

The third truth is about how God has prophets to communicate his messages through, both eternal truth and temporary policies.

The fourth truth is about how God inspired the policy in the first place, but after President Nelson saw all the pain it was causing, he went back to God and pleaded with him to change it and God allowed him to do so.

The fifth truth is that everybody can find out that what he has said is true by praying to God and God will let them know.

President Nelson then closes by testifying that everything he has said is true.

(This may be a bit off because I just listened to it and did not make notes, but I think it captures the talk in substance.)

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

el-asherah
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Re: Pres Nelson's BYU Speech Today

Post by el-asherah » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:05 pm

Mormonism in a nutshell
  • The brethren can do no wrong (2nd anointing) nor do they apologize, so throw God under the bus.
  • God exists to serve and protect the brethren, God is the ultimate fall-guy.
Last edited by el-asherah on Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I say these things in the name of Joshua and Awmen

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Palerider
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Re: Pres Nelson's BYU Speech Today

Post by Palerider » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:25 pm

consiglieri wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:28 am

But it is clear this is an attempt to defend not only the 2015 Policy of Exclusion, but also its reversal in April of 2019.

This is truth number four.

Everything else is built around it....

(This may be a bit off because I just listened to it and did not make notes, but I think it captures the talk in substance.)

All the Best!

--Consiglieri
Everything you've said is quite accurate. I watched it on the BYU channel.

My first impression was, "This talk is just a reiteration of past teachings, why is he kind of wasting people's time on this, if his talk is supposed to be critical to the "now"?

Then he started in on the LGBT 2015 policy and as he went along I realized the same thing as you Consiglieri. I thought, "He's using this entire address to explain a big, big stumble that he and leadership made and he's trying to couch it in this talk about "truth"."

The attempt came off as a clumsy stab at being nonchalant. It was also unconvincing.

Also (and I realize this is a personal observation) does this simpering, affectation of patriarchal concern in his bedside manner come off as disingenuous to anyone besides me? It's kind of low hanging fruit, I know, but something about it bugs me. I can't help but wonder if he's really like this at home.....
Last edited by Palerider on Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Just This Guy
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Re: Pres Nelson's BYU Speech Today

Post by Just This Guy » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:40 pm

Thanks for the summary.

So the takeaway is that god is a changeable god? Doesn't the BOM say that in that case, god ceases to be god?

To me, this comes across as something out of The Office. Bumbling, idiot manager makes a stupid business, when it is clear that it is costing the company money, they change it back, but they frame it as they saw the damage and went to fix it, so they portray themselves as the hero coming in for the rescue, trying to hide the fact it was their stupidity that created the problem in the first place.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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blazerb
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Re: Pres Nelson's BYU Speech Today

Post by blazerb » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:16 pm

I read the summary at Deseret News (https://www.deseret.com/2019/9/17/20868 ... ism-policy). The opening line floored me coming from a news source, even if it is owned by the church.
In a remarkable devotional address to young adults at BYU Tuesday, the president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints pleaded with students to ask God if church leaders “truly are the Lord’s apostles and prophets” and offered a detailed description of gospel love and law that motivated them to make church policy adjustments that affected the LGBT community in 2015 and 2019.
What news reporter describes a religious talk as "remarkable"? The propaganda arm is in full swing.

Aside from that, I don't see what RMN hoped to gain from bringing up this topic again. If he did not want to apologize, I am sure that ignoring the issue would be more effective at allaying concerns that giving crazy answers.

Why do I think it's crazy? It is apparent that the church has not cared one whit about conflict between parents and children at any time. I served my mission in Latin America. There were so many teenagers baptized. In many cases, this was against parental wishes. We were never even told to get parental permission before baptizing minors. No one cared about conflict in those homes.

I do not believe that they cared about conflict in the home now. That was a narrative that some apologist cooked up when they realized that the policy wasn't a John Dehlin hoax. Christofferson latched onto it in his PR interview. The leaders are still trying to make it stick. I'm angry all over again.

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wtfluff
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Re: Pres Nelson's BYU Speech Today

Post by wtfluff » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:23 pm

Haha.

This is actually awesome. The CEO gives a special speech to explain why Elohim basically contradict's "himself" in real time nowadays.

It's really not the CEO's fault (or the board of director's fault.) REALLY!

I'm surprised the CEO didn't make sure to tell us his magic lighted pen really isn't broken either.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Brilliant.

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StarbucksMom
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Re: Pres Nelson's BYU Speech Today

Post by StarbucksMom » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:46 pm

Wow. So God hates gays, but Russ loves them and has undying compassion for them. So he begged and begged God to reverse the hateful POX and God conceded to Russ’ infinite love and wisdom.

Russ just tried to convince Mormon youth that he is better and more loving than God. I feel he did more harm than good and 90% of youth will see through this BS, but we will see.

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Corsair
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Re: Pres Nelson's BYU Speech Today

Post by Corsair » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:49 pm

It's just like Consiglieri eloquently described, but here it is if you really want to listen. I'm sure there are arguments happening on BYU campus right now as students and teachers try to justify the status quo to the careful skeptics among them. I will certainly give credit to Russell Nelson for clearly establishing what he believes to be the correct doctrine and policy of the LDS church. It felt like he was trying to put a stake in the ground on this matter so that none of his successors can easily change it. But maybe God will once again change his mind like has happened so many times before.

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jfro18
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Re: Pres Nelson's BYU Speech Today

Post by jfro18 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:15 pm

I honestly think this speech will break some shelves because it literally throws God under the bus for the horrible November 15 policy... and then backs over God a few times on the way out.

This is a speech about calming nerves over this policy while establishing authority as the one true leader to look up to.

I am getting a transcription of this right now (I can put it through a digital service I get which isn't perfect but pretty good)... but this line I saw on reddit is beyond angering: "The arbiter of truth is God—not your favorite social media news feed, not Google, and certainly not those who are disaffected from the Church."

This is all about getting kids to know Rusty is the boss and everything else is just trying to destroy your soul. Quite a nice follow-up ot Sunday's "doubts are dangerous" line to the youth from elder christensen.

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Yobispo
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Re: Pres Nelson's BYU Speech Today

Post by Yobispo » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:22 pm

I'm stunned by this mess of contradictions and Nelly-perfectionism. It screams BITE Model.

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græy
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Re: Pres Nelson's BYU Speech Today

Post by græy » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:43 pm

consiglieri wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:28 am
The fifth truth is that everybody can find out that what he has said is true by praying to God and God will let them know.

President Nelson then closes by testifying that everything he has said is true.

(This may be a bit off because I just listened to it and did not make notes, but I think it captures the talk in substance.)

All the Best!

--Consiglieri
Thanks Consig!

What if I pray about it and the spirit confirms to me that the prophet doesn't actually know what he's doing, they're all just making it up as they go, and I am just as good if not better off ignoring the whole lot of them?
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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Snowdrop
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Re: Pres Nelson's BYU Speech Today

Post by Snowdrop » Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:15 pm

græy wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:43 pm
What if I pray about it and the spirit confirms to me that the prophet doesn't actually know what he's doing, they're all just making it up as they go, and I am just as good if not better off ignoring the whole lot of them?
“Listen, you little wiseacre: I'm smart, you're dumb; I'm big, you're little; I'm right, you're wrong, and there's nothing you can do about it.”
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I mean, umm, follow the prophet ‘cus he knows the way!
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Red Ryder
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Re: Pres Nelson's BYU Speech Today

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:48 pm

Ha ha!

God is truly a psycho if he changes his mind based on the pleadings of the mortal man Mr. Nelson.

Jesus H. Christ! Why can’t anyone see how CRAZY this church is!
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Re: Pres Nelson's BYU Speech Today

Post by RubinHighlander » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:59 pm

consiglieri wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:28 am
The first truth is that everybody is a child of God and God loves everybody perfectly and infinitely.
--Consiglieri
God loves everyone perfectly and infinitely? And what kind of parent treats most of their children the way that God has treated his over the ages? He's let a few of the chosen special ones (Noah, Jews in the OT) kill and abuse the other ones in his name because they didn't know or refused the special set of rules that he set for them. Currently that God only has .02% of his kids setup for potential celestial success on this planet in the 11th hour of his 6k human history. Seems the truth wasn't on the Earth for most of those 6k years. And one of his servants (Quentin L. Cook) recently changed the narrative so there will only be a few righteous ones, because of the wicked, as opposed to the hope TSCC used to preach that it's missionary effort would roll over the whole Earth. That's a great plan! That's perfect love! :roll:
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moksha
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Re: Pres Nelson's BYU Speech Today

Post by moksha » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:03 pm

consiglieri wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:28 am
The fourth truth is about how God inspired the policy in the first place, but after President Nelson saw all the pain it was causing, he went back to God and pleaded with him to change it and God allowed him to do so.
--Consiglieri
I was under the impression that the fourth truth was "Hell knows no fury like the Brethren spurned by the Supreme Court in allowing the legalization of same-sex marriage." This drove the Brethren to enact their expulsion revelation and to backtrack on it when they saw how many young people were leaving the Church because of that hell-spawned decision.

The Brethren had invested so much of their energy into opposing same-sex marriage, that when Isildur of Númenor cut the one ring from the Brethren's hand... well, you know the rest of that story. Eventually, the ring was found by Elder Gollum R. Richards.
Last edited by moksha on Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
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2bizE
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Re: Pres Nelson's BYU Speech Today

Post by 2bizE » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:10 pm

I just finished following Pres. Nelson’s advice and asked the lord if the apostles and prophets are true. All I got was a stupor of thought. What does that mean. I look forward to listening all about this on RFM in a few weeks.
~2bizE

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sunstoned
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Re: Pres Nelson's BYU Speech Today

Post by sunstoned » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:50 pm

Corsair wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:49 pm
It's just like Consiglieri eloquently described, but here it is if you really want to listen. I'm sure there are arguments happening on BYU campus right now as students and teachers try to justify the status quo to the careful skeptics among them. I will certainly give credit to Russell Nelson for clearly establishing what he believes to be the correct doctrine and policy of the LDS church. It felt like he was trying to put a stake in the ground on this matter so that none of his successors can easily change it. But maybe God will once again change his mind like has happened so many times before.
The essays on LDS.org are a testimony to how fast dead prophets can and will be thrown under the bus. I'm thinking Rusty and his POX misstep will be the next essay.

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blazerb
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Re: Pres Nelson's BYU Speech Today

Post by blazerb » Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:03 am

moksha wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:03 pm
The Brethren had invested so much of their energy into opposing same-sex marriage, that when Isildur of Númenor cut the one ring from the Brethren's hand... well, you know the rest of that story. Eventually, the ring was found by Elder Gollum R. Richards.
Actually Deagol found it. Elder Gollum R. Richards stole it from him.

Seriously, I wonder if RMN would please clarify about God's perfect love mentioned in this talk. Is it unconditional? Or is it still dependent on us doing what his chosen representatives tell us like he said a few years back in GC.

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Just This Guy
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Re: Pres Nelson's BYU Speech Today

Post by Just This Guy » Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:20 am

sunstoned wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:50 pm
Corsair wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:49 pm
It's just like Consiglieri eloquently described, but here it is if you really want to listen. I'm sure there are arguments happening on BYU campus right now as students and teachers try to justify the status quo to the careful skeptics among them. I will certainly give credit to Russell Nelson for clearly establishing what he believes to be the correct doctrine and policy of the LDS church. It felt like he was trying to put a stake in the ground on this matter so that none of his successors can easily change it. But maybe God will once again change his mind like has happened so many times before.
The essays on LDS.org are a testimony to how fast dead prophets can and will be thrown under the bus. I'm thinking Rusty and his POX misstep will be the next essay.
Right now they are trying to pin it on Monson. Amazing to see people get thrown under the bus in real time.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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Not Buying It
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Re: Pres Nelson's BYU Speech Today

Post by Not Buying It » Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:34 am

The transcript is here: https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/russell- ... -laws-god/

Good thing President Nelson is less than a bigot than God, without his supplication God never would have decided to change that policy. You’re my hero President Nelson!!!
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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