New topless ruling for Utah

[Palerider]

But it isn’t lady like to let on to the men what we all find sexy, so we don’t tell often. It’s one of the things the girls talk about, but don’t often tell the guys.

That would be an interesting topic of conversation. Women tell each other stuff about their way of thinking, but they keep men in the dark...

Is it soley because it's deemed unladylike or do women not want men thinking they're "human" too?

Is that a Victorian holdover from when women were put on pedastals and thought to have no sensual desires whatsoever?

[alas]

But it isn’t lady like to let on to the men what we all find sexy, so we don’t tell often. It’s one of the things the girls talk about, but don’t often tell the guys.

That would be an interesting topic of conversation. Women tell each other stuff about their way of thinking, but they keep men in the dark...

Is it soley because it's deemed unladylike or do women not want men thinking they're "human" too?

Is that a Victorian holdover from when women were put on pedastals and thought to have no sensual desires whatsoever?

I do think it is a Victorian holdover. And of course, the wayMormons hang onto Victorian ideals, women of my age were really trained by our culture that we were these non sexual beings who had to keep the lustful carnal men under control. It was never admitted that we might not want to keep men under control or have any sexual desire ourselves. But girls have sleep overs where we shared reality by talking about things and wondering why at church there was zero discussion that we could ever be turned on, let alone giving us the tools to handle it. Never once at church did we talk about chastity as if we females were human. It was all from the perspective on not letting the boy get turned on, not letting the boy touch. There was no discussion of consent, or how to control our feelings, or even that we HAD feelings.

[Emower]

So guys, go ahead and mow your lawn with your naked chest and get sweaty, as you get hot and sweaty, your neighbor ladies will be getting hot and bothered.

This has been a highly useful thread for me to follow. Now if only the "dad-bod" were were the same!

[Thoughtful]

But it isn’t lady like to let on to the men what we all find sexy, so we don’t tell often. It’s one of the things the girls talk about, but don’t often tell the guys.

That would be an interesting topic of conversation. Women tell each other stuff about their way of thinking, but they keep men in the dark...

Is it soley because it's deemed unladylike or do women not want men thinking they're "human" too?

Is that a Victorian holdover from when women were put on pedastals and thought to have no sensual desires whatsoever?

Women are socially conditioned to reinterpret or experiences through the male gaze. For example, teens rating their own sexual experiences based on what they think the partner liked. For example, "how was it?" Responded with, "I think I looked ok. He seemed to like it." Especially in LDS culture, women are taught from birth to please men not themselves. I think many women are so detached from their own sexuality because of cultural shame they may not even know what they respond to, or pleasure responses may feel uncomfortable or shameful. Throw in that a huge percentage have been sexually traumatized, I think there's a lot to unpack to start talking openly about what you like. More often for women, it's that youre damn lucky to find someone who is nice to you, even if the sex isn't great.

[2bizE]

I'd like to propose that well informed men who are of good character, see women's breasts as both functional in the nurturing of infants and as sexual parts of the female anatomy as well. And I think that's a healthy outlook.

Obviously I don't agree with the exploitive trends in our society that emphasize only the sexual aspect. It creates an unrealistic, twisted concept of female humanity. Once a society objectifies something it makes it disposable. Or worse, abusable.

That being said, I can't agree with the equating of a bare chested man to that of a woman. They don't seem to be the same thing......
The exception would be breastfeeding. There I think the woman has the prerogative.

Unless....(and I would need some of the ladies here to chime in and educate me a little more) ....unless women see a bare chested man as something sexually exciting or provoking.

I can't see a man's chest from a woman's point of view.

It's funny because I remember the first time I was informed by a female that women really like looking at men's behinds. I thought, "How could anyone enjoy that?" Apparently I had a lot to learn...

But male butts aren't sexual organs. For the most part they just help us walk and sometimes run really fast. And men aren't allowed to show them in public.....

Anyway, if it came right down to it being a case of if men can show their chests then so can women, then I'd say men should cover up. Yeah, I know....like that's gonna happen....

For an interesting article on the sexual function of the female breast, here's a good article in Psychology Today that gives a good explanation, dealing with both high tech and subsistence based societies. Please read the article before you start bashing me.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... ns-breasts

Yes, barechested men are sexy. I like chests more than butts. No one seems to worry about arms in public but arms are a thing too. Plenty of men get turned on by male nipple play too. Some men can breastfeed. Just because most men are attracted to womens breasts and some women like having their nipples touched during sex doesn't make them indecent comparable to, say, peeing or having an erection in public.

I have noticed men in general struggle to take women's perspectives. They are used to their position being the default and women are supposed to adjust or reframe our experiences through the default male lens. I think that's problematic in all sorts of discussions, especially since women so often don't have a voice at the decision making tables.

Alright Thoughtful, you got me at the “arms” part. I’m familiar with the breast and chest attraction, but apparently I’m new to the arms attraction. Please explain. I’ve heard of a foot fetish, but not the arms...

[alas]

I'd like to propose that well informed men who are of good character, see women's breasts as both functional in the nurturing of infants and as sexual parts of the female anatomy as well. And I think that's a healthy outlook.

Obviously I don't agree with the exploitive trends in our society that emphasize only the sexual aspect. It creates an unrealistic, twisted concept of female humanity. Once a society objectifies something it makes it disposable. Or worse, abusable.

That being said, I can't agree with the equating of a bare chested man to that of a woman. They don't seem to be the same thing......
The exception would be breastfeeding. There I think the woman has the prerogative.

Unless....(and I would need some of the ladies here to chime in and educate me a little more) ....unless women see a bare chested man as something sexually exciting or provoking.

I can't see a man's chest from a woman's point of view.

It's funny because I remember the first time I was informed by a female that women really like looking at men's behinds. I thought, "How could anyone enjoy that?" Apparently I had a lot to learn...

But male butts aren't sexual organs. For the most part they just help us walk and sometimes run really fast. And men aren't allowed to show them in public.....

Anyway, if it came right down to it being a case of if men can show their chests then so can women, then I'd say men should cover up. Yeah, I know....like that's gonna happen....

For an interesting article on the sexual function of the female breast, here's a good article in Psychology Today that gives a good explanation, dealing with both high tech and subsistence based societies. Please read the article before you start bashing me.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... ns-breasts

Yes, barechested men are sexy. I like chests more than butts. No one seems to worry about arms in public but arms are a thing too. Plenty of men get turned on by male nipple play too. Some men can breastfeed. Just because most men are attracted to womens breasts and some women like having their nipples touched during sex doesn't make them indecent comparable to, say, peeing or having an erection in public.

I have noticed men in general struggle to take women's perspectives. They are used to their position being the default and women are supposed to adjust or reframe our experiences through the default male lens. I think that's problematic in all sorts of discussions, especially since women so often don't have a voice at the decision making tables.

Alright Thoughtful, you got me at the “arms” part. I’m familiar with the breast and chest attraction, but apparently I’m new to the arms attraction. Please explain. I’ve heard of a foot fetish, but not the arms...

It is why the church worries so much about porn shoulders. It isn’t just the shoulders, but the upper arm, needs the right amount of muscle and right amount of softness. I dated a guy that I swear had an arm fetish. He hated it when I wore long sleeves. Other men, it is the collar bone, more than the shoulder itself, but you can’t appreciate the neck and collar bone with the shoulders covered. Other men like attractive legs. Think mini skirts. I had a friend, well I was close to his wife too, but once we were talking just the two of us, and he confessed to being a leg man. He said, he wished he was more of a personality man, because he thought he married his wife just because she had good legs, and has all kinds of trouble with her personality. Some men focus more on upper leg, while some like the calf muscle that shows well in high heels. There is a purpose to high heels. Well, besides giving podiatrists lots more work on women’s damaged feet.

[MoPag]

I agree with you regarding women not having a voice at the decision making table. I think men are getting better at asking for the female perspective but there is still room for improvement, both in asking how women feel and think AND in making room for them in the decision making process altogether.

^^^This is what I think is sexy ^^^
Men recognizing the lack of and need for female voices!!

Oh and Ammon's thighs as he is defending king Lamoni's sheep.

thighs.png (154.93 KiB) Viewed 7213 times

[Palerider]

Mistaken post.

[Palerider]

Oh and Ammon's thighs as he is defending king Lamoni's sheep.

thighs.png

You know Frieberg took a lot of liberties with the male figure in his paintings. He wanted all those Mormon boys to be just this side of Marvel Comics heroes.

It's really hard to compete with Arnold's imagination. Those body types come along very rarely and they all seem to come from Sweden....

[moksha]

From what I read in the newspaper, women still have to cover their nipples in Utah strip clubs. Wonder about the possibility of Utah stopping its planetary rotation for a day, a night, and a day if this topless ruling stands.

[Mormorrisey]

This is an absolutely fascinating discussion to me, as a non-Utah outsider. Women have been allowed to go topless since 1996 in the province in Canada where I live. It's been a non-issue since then, so for me to see this crop up in 2019 is utterly fascinating. I've never lived in Utah, but my desire to live there has been tepid at best, but I'm pretty confident reading stories from the board that I will continue to enjoy visiting my children there, but not putting down roots anytime soon!

[Thoughtful]

I'd like to propose that well informed men who are of good character, see women's breasts as both functional in the nurturing of infants and as sexual parts of the female anatomy as well. And I think that's a healthy outlook.

Obviously I don't agree with the exploitive trends in our society that emphasize only the sexual aspect. It creates an unrealistic, twisted concept of female humanity. Once a society objectifies something it makes it disposable. Or worse, abusable.

That being said, I can't agree with the equating of a bare chested man to that of a woman. They don't seem to be the same thing......
The exception would be breastfeeding. There I think the woman has the prerogative.

Unless....(and I would need some of the ladies here to chime in and educate me a little more) ....unless women see a bare chested man as something sexually exciting or provoking.

I can't see a man's chest from a woman's point of view.

It's funny because I remember the first time I was informed by a female that women really like looking at men's behinds. I thought, "How could anyone enjoy that?" Apparently I had a lot to learn...

But male butts aren't sexual organs. For the most part they just help us walk and sometimes run really fast. And men aren't allowed to show them in public.....

Anyway, if it came right down to it being a case of if men can show their chests then so can women, then I'd say men should cover up. Yeah, I know....like that's gonna happen....

For an interesting article on the sexual function of the female breast, here's a good article in Psychology Today that gives a good explanation, dealing with both high tech and subsistence based societies. Please read the article before you start bashing me.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... ns-breasts

Yes, barechested men are sexy. I like chests more than butts. No one seems to worry about arms in public but arms are a thing too. Plenty of men get turned on by male nipple play too. Some men can breastfeed. Just because most men are attracted to womens breasts and some women like having their nipples touched during sex doesn't make them indecent comparable to, say, peeing or having an erection in public.

I have noticed men in general struggle to take women's perspectives. They are used to their position being the default and women are supposed to adjust or reframe our experiences through the default male lens. I think that's problematic in all sorts of discussions, especially since women so often don't have a voice at the decision making tables.

Alright Thoughtful, you got me at the “arms” part. I’m familiar with the breast and chest attraction, but apparently I’m new to the arms attraction. Please explain. I’ve heard of a foot fetish, but not the arms...

This surprises me. All my straight female friends in HS/college loved men with cut biceps and forearms. I dont talk to my friends now about bodies, but alI thought it was pretty universally known that mens arms are sexy. Is this really a question? Haha.

[Palerider]

This is an absolutely fascinating discussion to me, as a non-Utah outsider. Women have been allowed to go topless since 1996 in the province in Canada where I live. It's been a non-issue since then, so for me to see this crop up in 2019 is utterly fascinating. I've never lived in Utah, but my desire to live there has been tepid at best, but I'm pretty confident reading stories from the board that I will continue to enjoy visiting my children there, but not putting down roots anytime soon!

I've lived in Arizona, Utah, Australia, Idaho, Montana, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Kentucky.....and I've visited Canada, New York City, Seattle, Charleston, Illinois, El Paso, Boston, Maine, Philadelphia, New Hampshire, Wyoming, Nevada, Hawaii, New Zealand, Fiji and the Cook Islands.

I would probably live in Utah before I would live in Kentucky....well....Western Kentucky. Eastern Kentucky isn't too bad. I'd live in eastern Kentucky before I would Utah. Otherwise I would live in any of the other places I've mentioned before I would live in Utah. I feel really sorry for anyone who has to live in Utah.

[Random]

Unless....(and I would need some of the ladies here to chime in and educate me a little more) ....unless women see a bare chested man as something sexually exciting or provoking.

Totally can be. Some men's naked torsos are pretty damn hot.

[Random]

I wonder at what point in human evolution clothes went from something for survival to a status symbol. At what point did the human body become sexualized to the point we had to cover it up. Humans oar the only animal that feels the need to cove up.

Good questions. I'm sure that, originally, clothing was for protection only - from the elements, from thorns, from ground too hot or too cold or too pointed.

And wearing three layers of clothing over one's nipples makes the nipples so tender that learning to nurse can be very, very painful. My doctor with my first baby recommended that I walk around outside topless every day. Like that was going to happen with men living next door who walked all over the property (we lived on a ranch; they were ranch workers) (especially with my spouse, who objected when I went topless around the house). So much pain could be diminished if women were allowed to go topless all the time, if they wanted to.

[Random]

I agree, moobs should also be undercover or we all uncover and it becomes the new norm.

Yep.

[Random]

About just how sexy naked male chests can be, look at the commercials that try to make men look sexy. They have one heck of a well built guy, not so muscular he looks deformed, but built nice. And they either have him bare chested or they have his shirt unbuttoned down to just above his navel, with just the right amount of hair sticking out. So, yes, women find naked male chests almost as arousing as men find the naked female chest. Women are not quite as visual in their arousal as men are, so it is not quite as much. The guy has to have good eyes and a nice smile too. But take Steve Harvey and take off the tie and unbutton that shirt down to his navel and you would have more women so distracted they can’t guess the answers. Check out Jonny Depp in a men’s cologne commercial. You don’t have to add the scent for him to be sexy.

Well said.

You can add to your list of things women find sexy two days beard growth, (Personally I don’t understand this one)

I find the two day's growth sexy, and I don't have any idea why.

So guys, go ahead and mow your lawn with your naked chest and get sweaty, as you get hot and sweaty, your neighbor ladies will be getting hot and bothered.

But it isn’t lady like to let on to the men what we all find sexy, so we don’t tell often. It’s one of the things the girls talk about, but don’t often tell the guys.

Yep.

[Random]

A man's arms and legs, with just the right amount of muscle, is incredibly sexy.

The younger generation seems to think that any body hair on men or women is gross. I totally cannot get that, because chest hair on men, for me, is - "Whoa. Fetch me a fan!"

(And any man reading this thread need not worry about me if they ever meet my old, droopy self in person. I don't spend my time lusting after men, but since people were asking for female feedback on this thread . . . .)

[MoPag]

The younger generation seems to think that any body hair on men or women is gross. I totally cannot get that, because chest hair on men, for me, is - "Whoa. Fetch me a fan!"

OhBehaveRandom!.png (51.38 KiB) Viewed 7109 times

[Random]

Okay, now that's gross! I wasn't talking about a woolly mammoth, or someone whose beard and chest hair have no separation. Moderation! Moderation!