I would agree with you if Oaks was Holland. But Oaks is fuming angry at the people with what Holland would call a birth defect. Oaks isn’t reacting to a birth defect, but a moral transgression. Oaks isn’t pounding the pulpit about children born deaf and trying to correct the birth defect. But a child born with ambiguous genitals, who the doctor guesses is male, and then grows up feeling inside like she is a she and the doctor screwed up with his guess, well, that send Oaks climbing right up the wall. The psychology behind his anger says he is really angry because his view of his religion is threatened. He protesteth too much.Palerider wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:57 amPutting on my TBM hat here for a moment:alas wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:33 amOaks knows that if people are really born with no clear indication if they are male or female, or with male chromosomes and a female body, that his view of the plan of salvation is called into question. That is exactly why he has fits about the whole thing. He knows that science proves him wrong and he just can’t stand to be wrong.asb wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:23 amOne other observation here.
1. It is an incontrovertible scientific fact that at least 1.5 of humans are born intersex, that is biologically neither male nor female.
2. Oaks said, “binary creation is essential to the plan of salvation.” https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... ip-session
3. If what Oaks said is true, the fact that "binary creation" isn't actually a thing means that the whole plan of salvation is frustrated and is null and void.
Thus, Oaks denies the power of God to save.
Is there honestly any other way to look at it?
He wants life to be simple and it isn’t.
I think both of the above statements may be unintentionally misrepresenting the Mormon view.
Isn't Oaks really saying that in Eternity the creation of spirits is really binary and that bodily complications here on Earth are just temporary glitches that like many other temporal problems, have to be lived with until they are corrected in the resurrection? Isn't that part of the purpose of the resurrection; to make perfect all of those temporal failings that so unjustly clouded our lives?
So the church expectation is similar to that of the gay issue. One needs to live as "normally" as possible while adhering to the law of chastity. A difficult hand to be dealt assuredly but it will all work out in the end.
Thus an ambiguous body here on Earth will be perfected according to it's "spiritual gender" whether that spirit is male or female, when this life is over. In the Mormon view, gender is strictly binary in the eternities. Not on Earth....
Ok. NOM hat back on:
The issue then becomes one of policy. How does the supposed church of God deal with those who struggle with these issues? Are we talking about "sin" or are we talking about a temporal malady over which the individual may have little control?
See, being born into the wrong sex of body isn’t seen as a birth defect. Well, the transgender folk see it that way. But the church sees it as they are born into the correct body, but their evil tendencies make them want to defy God and be the opposite sex. Even if they are XY but have a female body, well that can’t be that they are insensitive to male hormones, they want to be male because they are defying God. God had them born with female genitals. Period. It is t that simple and that makes Oakes angry.