NOM

With the announcement of a conference like "never before" planned for April it seems we may be being set up for a "Let's all worship Joseph" year again. The First vision bicentennial is just an excuse maybe?

And here I thought leadership had learned their lesson years back when they stuck Joseph on the December Christmas Ensign and got a bunch of blowback. The following article gave me a bit of nausea with all of the fawning and adoration being slathered on the faux-prophet.

"In 1805 “in a very small, out of the way place, unknown to pretty much the rest of the world,” a baby boy was born.

That child would come to influence the history of the world and stand at the head of the final dispensation of the gospel — “the dispensation that will actually succeed.”

In all the world, the baby in a crib here, was the baby “that made such a huge difference,” he said."
Elder Christopherson

http://www.ldsliving.com/President-Ball ... ay/s/91804

Does anyone else get the feeling that Chrisopherson is nearly describing a Nativity scene above?

It seems to me that one of the big problems of the New Testament Pharisees was their near worship of the dead prophet Moses. And yet LDS leadership seem blind to the paralells.

The way the article title reads one would almost wonder if Ballard is channeling Joseph. Necromancy springs to mind. I think we're in for another big, big Joseph Smith year. Can't wait.....🤮

Another failure to know their audience. If the church wants to keep the younger crowd they need to do better than hero worship of a dead prophet. That will only endear the older crowd. If it doesn't appeal to the younger generation, they will tune out quick.

I will have my popcorn at the ready!

Why not? They hero worship the current prophet in every damn meeting. Stake conference last weekend: RMN quotes -8. Jesus quotes - 0

All the church has is hero worship. The doctrine and theology has become to watered down to have any excitement to it.

These guys should realize all they are doing anymore is quoting each other. I guess when you set yourself up as speaking for god you believe everything you think and say is divine.


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Anyone who reads the Old Testament carefully has read accounts, of prophets that lie, kill, and just act goofy. Fortunately for Mormon prophets, most people don't read the O.T. that carefully. Hence they think a prophet, any prophet, is some kind of demigod.

Yeah, the 200th anniversary of the First Vision is a big deal, I guess. I think the LDS Church leaders feel like they can't let go of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon and the restoring of priesthood keys and etc. Because if they let go of those things, what do they have left? Not enough to keep people motivated for generations to come.

I'm hoping that 2020 is the year that I leave Mormonism. I want to become Catholic. I want to become Catholic really bad. I've gone to mass off and on for the past 5 months, and I've been praying the rosary every day for about 4 months. And I got my rosary blessed by a Catholic priest. Sometimes I wear my rosary around town. I feel weird wearing a cross necklace and garments simultaneously. But, hey, that's my life right now.

I believe the Catholic Church is basically true. I don't KNOW it's true. I BELIEVE it's true.

But my wife doesn't want me to become Catholic. It's funny, for the past 7 years I've attended the LDS church regularly without a traditional testimony, and I've thought I could stick with it for the rest of my life, but, I think my attitude is finally changing. I want a faith that I can be enthusiastic about. I want to genuflect and cross myself and go to confession and etc., and I want my kids to do the same thing.

I was hoping that the LDS church would go in a more mainstream Christian direction, but that's not happening. I mean, maybe it is, very very slowly, but... I don't care. I want to be Catholic.

misterfake371 wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:11 pm

Yeah, the 200th anniversary of the First Vision is a big deal, I guess. I think the LDS Church leaders feel like they can't let go of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon and the restoring of priesthood keys and etc. Because if they let go of those things, what do they have left? Not enough to keep people motivated for generations to come.

I'm hoping that 2020 is the year that I leave Mormonism. I want to become Catholic. I want to become Catholic really bad. I've gone to mass off and on for the past 5 months, and I've been praying the rosary every day for about 4 months. And I got my rosary blessed by a Catholic priest. Sometimes I wear my rosary around town. I feel weird wearing a cross necklace and garments simultaneously. But, hey, that's my life right now.

I believe the Catholic Church is basically true. I don't KNOW it's true. I BELIEVE it's true.

But my wife doesn't want me to become Catholic. It's funny, for the past 7 years I've attended the LDS church regularly without a traditional testimony, and I've thought I could stick with it for the rest of my life, but, I think my attitude is finally changing. I want a faith that I can be enthusiastic about. I want to genuflect and cross myself and go to confession and etc., and I want my kids to do the same thing.

I was hoping that the LDS church would go in a more mainstream Christian direction, but that's not happening. I mean, maybe it is, very very slowly, but... I don't care. I want to be Catholic.

See bolded part. I have a rosary blessed by the Pope, just sayin.

I applaud you for your faith in the Catholic religion. I am a firm believer in Real Christianity unlike the LDS church . Having said that I also believe Evangelicals and most Christian Faith's so I could call myself a Generic Christian I guess.

Mackman wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:42 pm

I applaud you for your faith in the Catholic religion. I am a firm believer in Real Christianity unlike the LDS church . Having said that I also believe Evangelicals and most Christian Faith's so I could call myself a Generic Christian I guess.

If the LDS church would simply let me live as a generic Christian I could ignore most of it. But the involvement demanded is overwhelming. Temple work, garments, extra scripture, silly dietary restrictions, "follow the prophet", missionary work and then all of the history and defense of LDS culture. The 200th anniversary of Joseph's First Vision is not going to help this problem.

I remember how 2005 was the year in which Smithmas eclipsed Christmas on the December program agenda. There was a tapering off in the two years following, and by 2008, Jesus had regained his spot on the Christmas program. Members are anxious to enact any suggestions made to them by Church Authorities.

Corsair wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:27 pm

If the LDS church would simply let me live as a generic Christian I could ignore most of it. But the involvement demanded is overwhelming. Temple work, garments, extra scripture, silly dietary restrictions, "follow the prophet", missionary work and then all of the history and defense of LDS culture. The 200th anniversary of Joseph's First Vision is not going to help this problem.

Just contrasting your description of the current church with 2 Nephi 26:33

"the Lord...he doeth that which is good among the children of men; and he doeth nothing save it be plain unto the children of men; and he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female..."

Interesting because ch. 26 had been going on about secret combinations, etc. Whereas the above seems so simple compared to what you have described.

And yet leadership cannot see that Joseph and they have gone so far of the rails....

In Christ's church no one should ever have to ask what the meaning is of the temple signs, tokens, covenants etc. There should be no "mysteries". The entire temple set-up is a great heresy.

A part of me thinks this extra special celebration was conjured up because Nelson realizes he won't be around for the 200th anniversary of the formation of the church on April 6, 2030 but he still wants to be the guy that threw that party.

misterfake371 wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:11 pm

Yeah, the 200th anniversary of the First Vision is a big deal, I guess. I think the LDS Church leaders feel like they can't let go of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon and the restoring of priesthood keys and etc. Because if they let go of those things, what do they have left? Not enough to keep people motivated for generations to come.

Corsair wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:27 pm

If the LDS church would simply let me live as a generic Christian I could ignore most of it. But the involvement demanded is overwhelming. Temple work, garments, extra scripture, silly dietary restrictions, "follow the prophet", missionary work and then all of the history and defense of LDS culture. The 200th anniversary of Joseph's First Vision is not going to help this problem.

These are the biggies for me. Every stake and ward has their flavor, but around here the only thing we focus on at church is becoming better at worshiping the church.

nibbler wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:13 pm

A part of me thinks this extra special celebration was conjured up because Nelson realizes he won't be around for the 200th anniversary of the formation of the church on April 6, 2030 but he still wants to be the guy that threw that party.

Yes, and there are still a few other bicentennial celebrations between now and 2030 that Oaks, Holland, or Bednar will get to preside over. The most obvious is the Book of Mormon published 200 years before 2029. But there are all of the Sep 21 meetings for four years back to a bicentennial in 2023. Nelson has a chance of reaching that. Maybe some clever soul will give us 200 years since treasure digging or seer stone finding. Some time in 2030s we ought to also get 200 years of "Fanny in the barn".

However, Heaven help us if we have to celebrate Nelson's 100th birthday party. The mind boggles over the endless object lessons we will get of righteous acts we can all perform as a birthday present for Russell Nelson.

Corsair wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:20 pm

Some time in 2030s we ought to also get 200 years of "Fanny in the barn".

That would make for a fun reenactment ceremony. Need to have the Soakers Club of BYU hop right on this one.

alas wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:04 am

See bolded part. I have a rosary blessed by the Pope, just sayin.

Holy cow! Where did you get that?

moksha wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:40 pm

Corsair wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:20 pm

Some time in 2030s we ought to also get 200 years of "Fanny in the barn".

That would make for a fun reenactment ceremony. Need to have the Soakers Club of BYU hop right on this one.

misterfake371 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:56 pm

alas wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:04 am

See bolded part. I have a rosary blessed by the Pope, just sayin.

Holy cow! Where did you get that?

Perk of spouse man spending 20 years active duty Air Force and living all over the place, Germany at the time. At certain public appearances, the Pope says a special prayer to bless the rosaries of those in the group if they hold them up for the blessing. So, we were with a tour group that happened to spend Easter Sunday in Rome. So, the tour guides turned us all lose to go to the Vatican square, where the Pope was addressing the million people in Vatican square. We heard the Pope was going to bless the rosaries of every one there. So, of course I am going to buy a rosary off of a street vendor on the way to Vatican square. It is just a cheap rosary because that was all that was available with short notice. But, if I ever need a favor from a Catholic friend, I have my bribe.

The Pope really supper impressed me. He was just so intelligent, educated, spiritual. Made our “prophet” look like a kindergarten drop out. And I only understood what he said in English. Most of the address was of course in Italian because Rome. He prayed in like 10-15 languages all of which he spoke enough to get by in the country if not fluently.

I believe the Catholic Church is basically true. I don't KNOW it's true. I BELIEVE it's true.

But my wife doesn't want me to become Catholic. It's funny, for the past 7 years I've attended the LDS church regularly without a traditional testimony, and I've thought I could stick with it for the rest of my life, but, I think my attitude is finally changing. I want a faith that I can be enthusiastic about. I want to genuflect and cross myself and go to confession and etc., and I want my kids to do the same thing.

Why?

Corsair wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:20 pm

Yes, and there are still a few other bicentennial celebrations between now and 2030 that Oaks, Holland, or Bednar will get to preside over. The most obvious is the Book of Mormon published 200 years before 2029. But there are all of the Sep 21 meetings for four years back to a bicentennial in 2023. Nelson has a chance of reaching that. Maybe some clever soul will give us 200 years since treasure digging or seer stone finding. Some time in 2030s we ought to also get 200 years of "Fanny in the barn".

However, Heaven help us if we have to celebrate Nelson's 100th birthday party. The mind boggles over the endless object lessons we will get of righteous acts we can all perform as a birthday present for Russell Nelson.
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If the LDS church would simply let me live as a generic Christian I could ignore most of it. But the involvement demanded is overwhelming. Temple work, garments, extra scripture, silly dietary restrictions, "follow the prophet", missionary work and then all of the history and defense of LDS culture. The 200th anniversary of Joseph's First Vision is not going to help this problem.
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I feel the same way Corsair. If I could just be a normal Christian and I think I could get back into some type of belief, but all the baggage with Mormonism has ruined it for me. I remember Richard Bushman saying the mission of Joseph Smith was to bring us closer to the savior. That hasn’t happened for me. Well, it did until I followed the breadcrumbs and found out it is all made up. Since Mormonism is all or nothing, I have troubles as I am a cafeteria Mormon? What would I put on my tray from Mormonism? Probably just a cup of free water and a toothpick.