The Book of Mormon: Written for Who's Day?

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Just This Guy
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The Book of Mormon: Written for Who's Day?

Post by Just This Guy » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:37 am

The latest Radio Free Mormon podcast (#91) got me thinking.

LDS Inc constantly says that the BOM was written for our day. Ancient Prophets preserved scripture to answer modern questions.

Okay, but is it really?

Out of the major theological issues for the last half century, how has the BOM helped?

Women and Priesthood. Nothing said on that point.
Homosexuality: Nothing said on that point.
Substance abuse and health issues: Nothing on that point.
Blacks and priesthood/temples/etc. Well the BOM clearly says that people with dark skin are descendants of great sinners and are not equal to their light skinned brothers and sisters. So it is on the wrong side of the argument there.
People getting rich as religious leaders: The BOM clearly condemns any financial compensation for religious work. Again, LDS are on the wrong side here because they are paid.
Religion & Government: the BOM goes both ways here and does not help in one way or another.
Temples: Nothing.

What the BOM does address is stuff that was on concern in the era when it as written. Infant baptism, manifest destiny, origin of the Native American, continuation of miracles, etc. It has clear and unambiguous statements to answer those theological questions. Even more than that, it was written for the exact time when it was written. Issues that came up soon afterwards like slavery are not addressed. Issues that were important outside in the world at large are not addressed.

The BOM lacks clear and unambiguous statements on issues outside of the moment when it was written.

Looking at it, the BOM comes off as not a book that was written for the modern day, by a book that was written for young Joseph Smith's day.
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1smartdodog
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Re: The Book of Mormon: Written for Who's Day?

Post by 1smartdodog » Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:45 am

First of all the church leaders have always tried to make the BOM more than it is. Since I was young it has been held up as a cure all for everything. Just got to read it a zillion times and you will see.

To say it was written for Joseph’s time makes sense since he wrote it. Joseph was famous for projecting past prophecies onto himself, but no so good at seeing the future. Hence nothing about modern day issues.


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Re: The Book of Mormon: Written for Who's Day?

Post by Palerider » Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:45 am

Just This Guy wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:37 am
Infant baptism, manifest destiny, origin of the Native American, continuation of miracles, etc. It has clear and unambiguous statements to answer those theological questions.
Even on some of the important doctrinal issues the BoM is not as clear and unambiguous as leadership says it is. All one has to do is read a little more carefully and the "We are saved by Grace, after all we can do" becomes a mess. No one does ALL they can do.

The doctrine of infant baptism is nearly re-employed by the church in baptizing eight year olds. No child of eight years of age is prepared to understand the heavy baptismal covenants that are only revealed later and then foisted upon them as teens and adults. Here the church practices an especially egregious form of coercion. In this sense the church is even worse than the practice they found so despicable in Catholicism.

The BoM while it may have some comforting words here and there actually is an embarrassment when compared to the spiritual strength offered by the Biblical scriptures.

It is no more a "witness" of Christ than the "apostles" of today who are witnesses in name only.
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Re: The Book of Mormon: Written for Who's Day?

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:17 am

You can apply things like "secret combinations" to a myriad of modern organizations but in reality it was ironically all about the 1820's anti-masonry movement.

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Re: The Book of Mormon: Written for Who's Day?

Post by RubinHighlander » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:44 am

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:17 am
You can apply things like "secret combinations" to a myriad of modern organizations but in reality it was ironically all about the 1820's anti-masonry movement.
To further add to the irony of the BOMs "secret combinations", why the hell was the temple ceremony all structured on the masons and we used to slit our throats and disembowel ourselves in secrecy over those dump cultist rituals? Also, look at all the secret combinations TSCC uses today: trying to sneak policy changes into the handbooks, keeping things like the seer stone in the closet, non-disclosure of tithing funds spending.
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Re: The Book of Mormon: Written for Who's Day?

Post by Yobispo » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:54 am

[/quote]

The doctrine of infant baptism is nearly re-employed by the church in baptizing eight year olds. No child of eight years of age is prepared to understand the heavy baptismal covenants that are only revealed later and then foisted upon them as teens and adults. Here the church practices an especially egregious form of coercion. In this sense the church is even worse than the practice they found so despicable in Catholicism.

[/quote]

This has driven me nuts for a long time, and I agree that it is even worse because it pretends to be something it is not - a choice with informed consent. Of all the things that drove me out, the consistent dishonesty was the common thread throughout.

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Re: The Book of Mormon: Written for Who's Day?

Post by Hagoth » Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:44 pm

Palerider wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:45 am
No child of eight years of age is prepared to understand the heavy baptismal covenants that are only revealed later and then foisted upon them as teens and adults.
Not only that, but brain development researchers have determined that children that age can't even understand the concept of God. He's the same as Santa Clause.
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Re: The Book of Mormon: Written for Who's Day?

Post by Apologeticsislying » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:41 pm

@Just This Guy,
Hey this is a very astute observation man. I think the point you make is profoundly powerful! Once again, it is so amazing that so very many and so very much of anything about Mormonism is up for grabs, it's problematic, its illogical, its unhistorical. I am at this point having to ask just where indeed does any of it end on any subject within the Church and its revelations?!
The same energy that emerges from the fountain of eternity into time, is the Holy Grail at the center of the universe of the inexhaustible vitality in each of our hearts. The Holy Grail, like the Kingdom of God, is within. -Joseph Campbell-

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Re: The Book of Mormon: Written for Who's Day?

Post by wtfluff » Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:54 pm

"Written for our day" is just another trite MORmON phrase that gets repeated constantly because mormons are trained to say it. (We all likely said it at some point during our MORmON careers.)

As this thread points out: If you actually called someone out and asked them to point out how the Book of Mormon does actually relate to the problems of today, they would either have a hard time coming up with anything, or they would quickly make something up (basically: lie.)

Ever hear this one? "I learn something new every time I attend the temple." Have you ever asked anyone the "new thing" they learned? Did you get a coherent answer besides: "It's too sacred to talk about" ?
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alas
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Re: The Book of Mormon: Written for Who's Day?

Post by alas » Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:15 am

Well, seeing as Joseph Smith believed the second coming was going to be before his 80 something birthday, he probably did think BoM was written for the very last days, 1890ish.


But good point about baptism at age 8 is not that different than infant baptism, and how horrible it is to hold such a “choice” over a child’s head. The kind of story about you have to go to church because you promised at baptism....um, no there is no such promise about attending any kind of meeting, nor is there an agreement to give up all future choices and agency. Not only is it guilting the child, it is a lie. The child promised no such thing. I know for sure my baptism was not my choice, but that I was forced into it be relatives. My protests of what I actually wanted were ignored.

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Re: The Book of Mormon: Written for Who's Day?

Post by Corsair » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:46 am

Just This Guy wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:37 am
Looking at it, the BOM comes off as not a book that was written for the modern day, by a book that was written for young Joseph Smith's day.
I'm not sure what day it was written for. All of the prohibitions against plural marriage in Jacob chapter 2 were summarily ignored by church leadership. I certainly know the apologetic defense shows up in Jacob 2:30, "For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people;" In other words, all of these prophetic denunciations about plural marriage can be easily ignored as long as the prophet feels "inspired" that God wants worthy priesthood holders to "raise up some seed." Too bad Joseph never seeded anyone that stayed in the LDS church.

Others have correctly noted a long list of modern challenges which are not only ignored, but which leave the LDS church both ignorant and tone deaf. The Book of Mormon ends up as this fairly simple path towards generic Christianity with faith, repentance, baptism, and the Gift of the Holy Ghost. That's almost admirable from the point of view of mainstream Christianity. But no Catholic or Protestant really wants to let in the Book of Mormon because it keeps leading to plural marriage, weird temple cosplay, and unreasonable dietary restrictions. Those parts of the LDS church are simply not worth it.

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deacon blues
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Re: The Book of Mormon: Written for Who's Day?

Post by deacon blues » Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:33 am

One message from the BOM is that prophets are to confront atheists and/or Universalists and strike them deaf and/or dumb. (Examples: Google Sherem, Korihor, and Nehor.) If it says it in the BOM it must be for our time, and if it says it 3 times it must be important. This has been ignored by latter day prophets (with the exception of Parley Pratt and Orson Hyde) and probably for the best. But if one takes the BOM seriously it seems they should take this more to heart.
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