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Prophets vs. Fortune Tellers
Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:45 pm
by Hagoth
In D&C 6 the Lord says to Oliver Cowdery:
22 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if you desire a further witness, cast your mind upon the night that you cried unto me in your heart, that you might know concerning the truth of these things.
23 Did I not speak peace to your mind concerning the matter? What greater witness can you have than from God?
24 And now, behold, you have received a witness; for if I have told you things which no man knoweth have you not received a witness?
I was listening to a podcast that was talking about psychics who had experienced a faith crisis when they realized that they didn't really have supernatural abilities, just good insights into human behavior. One said the big revelation for her was when she realized that everybody is concerned about the exact same things but but we all think we are unique. When the psychic figure outs which one of those (health, work, love, family...) is on the person's mind and gives them a few general statements their brains fill in the specifics and they come away thinking the psychic made precise observations and predictions, even though that never actually happened.
For some reason that made me think of Oliver Cowdery. Imagine that you are an intensely religious person who has faithfully sought out a charismatic person who you believe might be your direct connection to God. Wouldn't you pour out your heart to God to know if it was true? And then if you received comfort about it wouldn't that be manifest in a change about how you treated that person? Might you even say that to them in so many words, even if you didn't tell them the whole story?
Now consider how non-specific this is to Oliver Cowdery. In fact, if someone said the same thing to anyone on this forum when they were still believers I bet you would have been able to think of a time that revelation would apply to you.
Re: Prophets vs. Fortune Tellers
Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:14 pm
by Corsair
I had not thought about fortune tellers having a faith crisis. That is an interesting twist. It is enlightening, yet not surprising that health, love, work, and family are what draw people to psychics.
One of my favorite podcasts is the Skeptic's Guide to the Universe. Their first show of the year always includes a fun and useful segment where they look at the biggest psychic predictions of the past year and see if any were the least bit useful. They consistently fail in all but the most blandly generic ways. This is contrasted with the big stories that no one predicted. No psychic predicted the Hong Kong riots, or Epstein's "untimely" demise, or the fire in the Notre Dame cathedral. It's always useless.
In light of that, what is a question you could ask God, or some prophet, or a fortune teller that could verify the claim that they really do have access to the fundamentals of the universe? I have thought of a few, but they really start to sound arrogant and weirdly esoteric. For example, there is a supernova that will happen in the Eta Carinae nebula. It will likely be visible from Earth, but we have no idea when it will happen. It may already have happened but we have simply not seen it yet. Providing the exact date when it will be detected and then visible without a telescope would be pretty impressive.
There are some interesting mathematics proofs that could also be used. Prophecy and communication with the divine never comes close to this level of specificity.
Re: Prophets vs. Fortune Tellers
Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:17 pm
by Thoughtful
Corsair wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:14 pm
I had not thought about fortune tellers having a faith crisis. That is an interesting twist. It is enlightening, yet not surprising that health, love, work, and family are what draw people to psychics.
One of my favorite podcasts is the Skeptic's Guide to the Universe. Their first show of the year always includes a fun and useful segment where they look at the biggest psychic predictions of the past year and see if any were the least bit useful. They consistently fail in all but the most blandly generic ways. This is contrasted with the big stories that
no one predicted. No psychic predicted the Hong Kong riots, or Epstein's "untimely" demise, or the fire in the Notre Dame cathedral. It's always useless.
In light of that, what is a question you could ask God, or some prophet, or a fortune teller that could verify the claim that they really do have access to the fundamentals of the universe? I have thought of a few, but they really start to sound arrogant and weirdly esoteric. For example, there is a supernova that will happen in the Eta Carinae nebula. It will likely be visible from Earth, but we have no idea when it will happen. It may
already have happened but we have simply not seen it yet. Providing the exact date when it will be detected and then visible without a telescope would be pretty impressive.
There are some interesting mathematics proofs that could also be used. Prophecy and communication with the divine never comes close to this level of specificity.
Yeah, but the entire internet predicted Epstiens demise tho.
Re: Prophets vs. Fortune Tellers
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:49 am
by moksha
Whenever I have experienced fortune tellers, I came away amused at how vague the predictions were. These fortune-tellers don't even bother writing their predictions down like Patriarchal Blessers.
Truth be told, I did receive a cold tarot card reading that was very disturbing. The reader never probed me for information so I have no clue how she did it.
Re: Prophets vs. Fortune Tellers
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:31 am
by Corsair
Thoughtful wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:17 pm
Yeah, but the entire internet predicted Epstiens demise tho.
Absolutely. It was the
least surprising event of the year once he was in prison. No one with the power to "see the future" mentioned it.