Mayan palace at least 1,000 years old uncovered by archeologists in Mexico

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jfro18
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Mayan palace at least 1,000 years old uncovered by archeologists in Mexico

Post by jfro18 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:04 pm

https://news.sky.com/story/mayan-palace ... sf-twitter

The church is true people - it was only a matter of time until they unearthed more evidence that the Mayans were Lamanites.

See you all in the seats on Sunday.

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Hagoth
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Re: Mayan palace at least 1,000 years old uncovered by archeologists in Mexico

Post by Hagoth » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:14 pm

I'm sure someone will consider this evidence of Nephites, even though it's dated to 600 years after their supposed slaughter.

When I was growing up I was taught that the collapse of the Maya was due to the demise of the Nephites at the hands of the Lamanites, but discoveries like this continue to illuminate the fact that the culture did not vanish; it mostly moved from the interior to the coast due to ecological damage and drought in the interior of the peninsula. And it was a very gradual collapse. The archaeological evidence suggests that in most places you wouldn't even realize a collapse was going on. In Copan it amounted to the equivalent of approx. one family per year moving out over a period of about 400 years.

One of the murals on temple square (not sure if it's still there) features Jesus at the Castillo pyramid at Chichen Itza, which postdates that BoM event by about 1200 years. Back then it was just assumed that every man-made feature south of Texas was evidence of the BoM.

How many of you are old enough to remember the Ancient America Speaks filmstrip? Sheesh. About the same time as the metalic gold cover edition of the BoM with the Anthon Transcript characters.
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Re: Mayan palace at least 1,000 years old uncovered by archeologists in Mexico

Post by moksha » Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:13 am

Any traces of ancient bagels?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
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Reuben
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Re: Mayan palace at least 1,000 years old uncovered by archeologists in Mexico

Post by Reuben » Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:33 am

I'm sure literalist believers will use this as evidence that there's still plenty to find down there.
moksha wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:13 am
Any traces of ancient bagels?
Or cureloms?

(Why bagels? Am I missing an inside joke? Reply in parentheses so we don't disrupt the main conversation.)
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

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Re: Mayan palace at least 1,000 years old uncovered by archeologists in Mexico

Post by moksha » Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:59 am

Reuben wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:33 am
(Why bagels? Am I missing an inside joke? Reply in parentheses so we don't disrupt the main conversation.)
(So why bagels? These Nephite Mayans would need something to put the lox and schmear of cream cheese on for when they wanted a nosh already.)
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
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Re: Mayan palace at least 1,000 years old uncovered by archeologists in Mexico

Post by wtfluff » Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:54 am

moksha wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:59 am
Reuben wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:33 am
(Why bagels? Am I missing an inside joke? Reply in parentheses so we don't disrupt the main conversation.)
(So why bagels? These Nephite Mayans would need something to put the lox and schmear of cream cheese on for when they wanted a nosh already.)
(I think the portly penguin is making a Moksha-ish reference to the "Nephites" being Jewish.)
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Apologeticsislying
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Re: Mayan palace at least 1,000 years old uncovered by archeologists in Mexico

Post by Apologeticsislying » Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:13 am

Hagoth wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:14 pm
I'm sure someone will consider this evidence of Nephites, even though it's dated to 600 years after their supposed slaughter.

When I was growing up I was taught that the collapse of the Maya was due to the demise of the Nephites at the hands of the Lamanites, but discoveries like this continue to illuminate the fact that the culture did not vanish; it mostly moved from the interior to the coast due to ecological damage and drought in the interior of the peninsula. And it was a very gradual collapse. The archaeological evidence suggests that in most places you wouldn't even realize a collapse was going on. In Copan it amounted to the equivalent of approx. one family per year moving out over a period of about 400 years.

One of the murals on temple square (not sure if it's still there) features Jesus at the Castillo pyramid at Chichen Itza, which postdates that BoM event by about 1200 years. Back then it was just assumed that every man-made feature south of Texas was evidence of the BoM.

How many of you are old enough to remember the Ancient America Speaks filmstrip? Sheesh. About the same time as the metalic gold cover edition of the BoM with the Anthon Transcript characters.
Oh my gosh! I used that filmstrip on my mission all the time! Although I remember the members liking it better than the investigators ever did. ;)
The same energy that emerges from the fountain of eternity into time, is the Holy Grail at the center of the universe of the inexhaustible vitality in each of our hearts. The Holy Grail, like the Kingdom of God, is within. -Joseph Campbell-

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Re: Mayan palace at least 1,000 years old uncovered by archeologists in Mexico

Post by slavereeno » Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:51 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:14 pm
I'm sure someone will consider this evidence of Nephites, even though it's dated to 600 years after their supposed slaughter.
Isn't it obvious! The Book of Mormon says the Nephites built stuff, and now they found out that people built stuff! Proof!

Now back to church! ...and please be sure to stop by the tithing envelopes on your way in.

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jfro18
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Re: Mayan palace at least 1,000 years old uncovered by archeologists in Mexico

Post by jfro18 » Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:27 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:14 pm
I'm sure someone will consider this evidence of Nephites, even though it's dated to 600 years after their supposed slaughter.
It reminds me of how many TBMs will point to that one National Geographic article about the DNA remains that point to (I think) European DNA but ignore that the remains were like 12,000 years old and well before BoM times.

But the answer I often see on social media with these articles is something along the lines of "It's amazing how they keep finding more and more evidence of advanced Mayan civilizations and it's only a matter of time until they uncover the Book of Mormon cities."

So they won't say this proves the BoM, but it does prove that they are still finding things that will of course lead to BoM discoveries.

Now back to church, heathens!

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Re: Mayan palace at least 1,000 years old uncovered by archeologists in Mexico

Post by blazerb » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:24 am

jfro18 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:27 pm
Hagoth wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:14 pm
I'm sure someone will consider this evidence of Nephites, even though it's dated to 600 years after their supposed slaughter.
It reminds me of how many TBMs will point to that one National Geographic article about the DNA remains that point to (I think) European DNA but ignore that the remains were like 12,000 years old and well before BoM times.

But the answer I often see on social media with these articles is something along the lines of "It's amazing how they keep finding more and more evidence of advanced Mayan civilizations and it's only a matter of time until they uncover the Book of Mormon cities."

So they won't say this proves the BoM, but it does prove that they are still finding things that will of course lead to BoM discoveries.

Now back to church, heathens!
The fact that the remains are dated by "so-called scientists" as 12,000 years old proves that they are BoM evidence. You see, the mortal existence of the Earth only began 6,000 years ago. It is impossible for these remains to be older than Adam's fall from the Garden. Therefore, the "so-called scientists" are lying about the age of these remains. They must be from BoM times. The church is true. The white hat holding the seer stone was right. QED. /s

I'm being a little unfair. There are not a lot of people still using reasoning such as this, but it's still out there.

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Re: Mayan palace at least 1,000 years old uncovered by archeologists in Mexico

Post by Hagoth » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:05 am

jfro18 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:27 pm
So they won't say this proves the BoM, but it does prove that they are still finding things that will of course lead to BoM discoveries.
I can't think of anything that would be more exciting than someone finding undeniable proof of the BoM. I'm not talking about three letters carved on an altar, or sheep are really turkeys kind of evidence, I'm talking about solid, convince-the-nonMormon-scholars kind of stuff. Something like the testament of Nephi III carved on a stela in Hebrew. Imagine how that would shake things up.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

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Re: Mayan palace at least 1,000 years old uncovered by archeologists in Mexico

Post by Corsair » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:27 am

blazerb wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:24 am
The fact that the remains are dated by "so-called scientists" as 12,000 years old proves that they are BoM evidence. You see, the mortal existence of the Earth only began 6,000 years ago. It is impossible for these remains to be older than Adam's fall from the Garden. Therefore, the "so-called scientists" are lying about the age of these remains. They must be from BoM times. The church is true. The white hat holding the seer stone was right. QED. /s

I'm being a little unfair. There are not a lot of people still using reasoning such as this, but it's still out there.
The people using this kind of reasoning are among those influencing policies for issuing temple recommends and distributing church funds. So much of LDS culture is gated by whether or not you hold a current temple recommend. I continue to have a current temple recommend because I am not interested in the inevitable social and familial fallout.

It may astonish some of your, but I actually attended a temple endowment session on Saturday. You may have heard that there is a new movie. This is true, but it's kind of a non-event. The Powerpoint slides are still there with some of the images updated apparently to give variety to face of the endowment, in a manner of speaking. But the text stayed the same and it's largely the same actors.

My temple attendance and my silence on Book of Mormon historicity is based entirely on preserving family relationships. This is particularly true because my dear father holds his temple work as a central organizing fact of his life, particularly since my mother passed away. I am grateful for the support this provides in his life.

At the same time, it also means that I don't comment on the story of the thousand year old Mayan palace in front of my family or ward leaders. The ancient inhabitants of the Americas have a real and non-trivial influence on my family relationships. It's like a curse from the Book of Mormon that affects many of us even today.

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Re: Mayan palace at least 1,000 years old uncovered by archeologists in Mexico

Post by Reuben » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:30 am

Hagoth wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:05 am
jfro18 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:27 pm
So they won't say this proves the BoM, but it does prove that they are still finding things that will of course lead to BoM discoveries.
I can't think of anything that would be more exciting than someone finding undeniable proof of the BoM. I'm not talking about three letters carved on an altar, or sheep are really turkeys kind of evidence, I'm talking about solid, convince-the-nonMormon-scholars kind of stuff. Something like the testament of Nephi III carved on a stela in Hebrew. Imagine how that would shake things up.
Where's Mark Hofmann when you need him?

(I'm honestly unsure whether that joke is completely tasteless.)
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

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Re: Mayan palace at least 1,000 years old uncovered by archeologists in Mexico

Post by Reuben » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:39 am

Corsair wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:27 am
At the same time, it also means that I don't comment on the story of the thousand year old Mayan palace in front of my family or ward leaders. The ancient inhabitants of the Americas have a real and non-trivial influence on my family relationships. It's like a curse from the Book of Mormon that affects many of us even today.
Well, you bit the apple and gained knowledge.
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

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Re: Mayan palace at least 1,000 years old uncovered by archeologists in Mexico

Post by slavereeno » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:36 am

Corsair wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:27 am
At the same time, it also means that I don't comment on the story of the thousand year old Mayan palace in front of my family or ward leaders. The ancient inhabitants of the Americas have a real and non-trivial influence on my family relationships. It's like a curse from the Book of Mormon that affects many of us even today.
All to true. :x

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Re: Mayan palace at least 1,000 years old uncovered by archeologists in Mexico

Post by 2bizE » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:19 am

Apologeticsislying wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:13 am
Hagoth wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:14 pm
I'm sure someone will consider this evidence of Nephites, even though it's dated to 600 years after their supposed slaughter.

When I was growing up I was taught that the collapse of the Maya was due to the demise of the Nephites at the hands of the Lamanites, but discoveries like this continue to illuminate the fact that the culture did not vanish; it mostly moved from the interior to the coast due to ecological damage and drought in the interior of the peninsula. And it was a very gradual collapse. The archaeological evidence suggests that in most places you wouldn't even realize a collapse was going on. In Copan it amounted to the equivalent of approx. one family per year moving out over a period of about 400 years.

One of the murals on temple square (not sure if it's still there) features Jesus at the Castillo pyramid at Chichen Itza, which postdates that BoM event by about 1200 years. Back then it was just assumed that every man-made feature south of Texas was evidence of the BoM.

How many of you are old enough to remember the Ancient America Speaks filmstrip? Sheesh. About the same time as the metalic gold cover edition of the BoM with the Anthon Transcript characters.
Oh my gosh! I used that filmstrip on my mission all the time! Although I remember the members liking it better than the investigators ever did. ;)
Beep! (Elder turns to the next slide)
~2bizE

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Re: Mayan palace at least 1,000 years old uncovered by archeologists in Mexico

Post by RubinHighlander » Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:34 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:14 pm
How many of you are old enough to remember the Ancient America Speaks filmstrip? Sheesh. About the same time as the metalic gold cover edition of the BoM with the Anthon Transcript characters.
Yup, had the VHS and the filmstrip on my mish and occasionally showed it to some investigators. I wanted so bad that solid evidence would be uncovered down there in S. America. It seems that more evidence existed back in the 70s and 80s, only to be refuted later and nothing new revealed.
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Re: Mayan palace at least 1,000 years old uncovered by archeologists in Mexico

Post by Random » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:34 am

blazerb wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:24 am
You see, the mortal existence of the Earth only began 6,000 years ago.
What's interesting is this Book of Mormon quote:
. . . but there were many before the days of Abraham who were called by the order of God; yea, even after the order of his Son; and this that it should be shown unto the people, a great many thousand years before his coming, that even redemption should come unto them.

Helaman 8:18
I read that a few days ago. "A great many thousand" years before Christ was born. So, as a believer that the Book of Mormon came from God, how can I believe the earth is only 6,000 years old? To me, this implies that people were learning about the Son of God something like 100,000 years before Jesus was born!
There are 2 Gods. One who created us. The other you created. The God you made up is just like you-thrives on flattery-makes you live in fear.

Believe in the God who created us. And the God you created should be abolished.
PK

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Re: Mayan palace at least 1,000 years old uncovered by archeologists in Mexico

Post by blazerb » Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:09 pm

Random wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:34 am
blazerb wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:24 am
You see, the mortal existence of the Earth only began 6,000 years ago.
What's interesting is this Book of Mormon quote:
. . . but there were many before the days of Abraham who were called by the order of God; yea, even after the order of his Son; and this that it should be shown unto the people, a great many thousand years before his coming, that even redemption should come unto them.

Helaman 8:18
I read that a few days ago. "A great many thousand" years before Christ was born. So, as a believer that the Book of Mormon came from God, how can I believe the earth is only 6,000 years old? To me, this implies that people were learning about the Son of God something like 100,000 years before Jesus was born!
Well, there are those burial rites of the Neanderthals. I am sure religion has been around a very long time.

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Re: Mayan palace at least 1,000 years old uncovered by archeologists in Mexico

Post by Arcturus » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:40 am

jfro18 wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:04 pm
https://news.sky.com/story/mayan-palace ... sf-twitter

The church is true people - it was only a matter of time until they unearthed more evidence that the Mayans were Lamanites.

See you all in the seats on Sunday.
I recently became familiar with the archeological finding of Gobekli Tepe in Turkey via the Joe Rogan podcast interviews with Graham Hancock. Fascinating stuff. Supposedly some egyptologists are also thinking now that the Sphinx should be dated to around 8,000 BCE as well, and is thus not an artifact of the Egyptians. The ability of human beings to build these things 10,000 years ago and the technological demands has people scratching their heads.

Too bad we don't have Joseph Smith to enlighten us on what really happened here. Maybe Abraham went back in time and helped construct these edifices with the power of the priesthood? Oh well, all will be revealed in time. Maybe the sealed portion of the BofM has the answer! ;)

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... -83613665/
“How valuable is a faith that is dependent on the maintenance of ignorance? If faith can only thrive in the absence of the knowledge of its origins, history, and competing theological concepts, then what is it we really have to hold on to?”
D Brisbin

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