Why Priesthood At All?

[alas]

In addition to the idea that priesthood gives leaders authority over others, such as women and lower ranking men, it also gives the church authority over Jesus.

It's the fundamental difference between Christianity and LDS Christianity-- grace of Jesus vs. Saving Ordinances.

All the way up to the second anointing, the priesthood gives church leadership as a governing body more power than Christ to save souls and administrate the details of eternal life. Of course leaving everyone, especially women, in the debt of the men who condescend to do the administration.

Wow, this is insightful. And hits on one of my huge problems with Mormonism with the endowment and second anointing. My first reaction to the endowment was total repulsion at the idea of secret signs and tokens and passwords to get into heaven. I realized that any jerk who got their endowments had a ticket to heaven, even if they lied to get in, they still knew the secret password. Then my husband told me about the second anointing that I had never heard of before. Um...no. Men have no authority to tell someone that they get into heaven no matter what they do, short of murdering an innocent. Just no. And declaring Joseph Smith the judge of people in this dispensation, no that is Christ and only Christ and he employs no one else at the gate.

But I had never put it in quite the words that it gives Mormon priesthood power over Jesus. Um, yikes.

[Thoughtful]

In addition to the idea that priesthood gives leaders authority over others, such as women and lower ranking men, it also gives the church authority over Jesus.

It's the fundamental difference between Christianity and LDS Christianity-- grace of Jesus vs. Saving Ordinances.

All the way up to the second anointing, the priesthood gives church leadership as a governing body more power than Christ to save souls and administrate the details of eternal life. Of course leaving everyone, especially women, in the debt of the men who condescend to do the administration.

Wow, this is insightful. And hits on one of my huge problems with Mormonism with the endowment and second anointing. My first reaction to the endowment was total repulsion at the idea of secret signs and tokens and passwords to get into heaven. I realized that any jerk who got their endowments had a ticket to heaven, even if they lied to get in, they still knew the secret password. Then my husband told me about the second anointing that I had never heard of before. Um...no. Men have no authority to tell someone that they get into heaven no matter what they do, short of murdering an innocent. Just no. And declaring Joseph Smith the judge of people in this dispensation, no that is Christ and only Christ and he employs no one else at the gate.

But I had never put it in quite the words that it gives Mormon priesthood power over Jesus. Um, yikes.

Annnnd.....if we want to really get into exploring this idea, the concept of sealing and binding is rooted occult. "I the Lord am bound". It comes from occult ideas that you can bind God or demons to make good on a deal, harness their power like a genie in a bottle and wield it to your own ends.

[alas]

In addition to the idea that priesthood gives leaders authority over others, such as women and lower ranking men, it also gives the church authority over Jesus.

It's the fundamental difference between Christianity and LDS Christianity-- grace of Jesus vs. Saving Ordinances.

All the way up to the second anointing, the priesthood gives church leadership as a governing body more power than Christ to save souls and administrate the details of eternal life. Of course leaving everyone, especially women, in the debt of the men who condescend to do the administration.

Wow, this is insightful. And hits on one of my huge problems with Mormonism with the endowment and second anointing. My first reaction to the endowment was total repulsion at the idea of secret signs and tokens and passwords to get into heaven. I realized that any jerk who got their endowments had a ticket to heaven, even if they lied to get in, they still knew the secret password. Then my husband told me about the second anointing that I had never heard of before. Um...no. Men have no authority to tell someone that they get into heaven no matter what they do, short of murdering an innocent. Just no. And declaring Joseph Smith the judge of people in this dispensation, no that is Christ and only Christ and he employs no one else at the gate.

But I had never put it in quite the words that it gives Mormon priesthood power over Jesus. Um, yikes.

Annnnd.....if we want to really get into exploring this idea, the concept of sealing and binding is rooted occult. "I the Lord am bound". It comes from occult ideas that you can bind God or demons to make good on a deal, harness their power like a genie in a bottle and wield it to your own ends.

Yes, that is part of it.

I went through the temple when the “penalties” were still there. You swear to keep the signs and tokens secret, on threat of your life, literally pantomiming slitting your throat, gutting yourself. Yeah. So my first trip to the temple and all I can think is secret combinations and Gadianton robbers and this is evil, occult, and I’ve got to get out of here. The whole idea that secret signs and tokens can compel God is evil. I was sure I had gotten into something Satanic.

That idea of binding God, does anyone know if that is part of the Masons thing, or does that come from Joseph’s occult roots. Did he combine his occult stuff with Masonic stuff for the temple? Or is that binding power part of the Masonic ceremonies too?

[MoPag]

Wow, this is insightful. And hits on one of my huge problems with Mormonism with the endowment and second anointing. My first reaction to the endowment was total repulsion at the idea of secret signs and tokens and passwords to get into heaven. I realized that any jerk who got their endowments had a ticket to heaven, even if they lied to get in, they still knew the secret password. Then my husband told me about the second anointing that I had never heard of before. Um...no. Men have no authority to tell someone that they get into heaven no matter what they do, short of murdering an innocent. Just no. And declaring Joseph Smith the judge of people in this dispensation, no that is Christ and only Christ and he employs no one else at the gate.

But I had never put it in quite the words that it gives Mormon priesthood power over Jesus. Um, yikes.

Annnnd.....if we want to really get into exploring this idea, the concept of sealing and binding is rooted occult. "I the Lord am bound". It comes from occult ideas that you can bind God or demons to make good on a deal, harness their power like a genie in a bottle and wield it to your own ends.

Yes, that is part of it.

I went through the temple when the “penalties” were still there. You swear to keep the signs and tokens secret, on threat of your life, literally pantomiming slitting your throat, gutting yourself. Yeah. So my first trip to the temple and all I can think is secret combinations and Gadianton robbers and this is evil, occult, and I’ve got to get out of here. The whole idea that secret signs and tokens can compel God is evil. I was sure I had gotten into something Satanic.

That idea of binding God, does anyone know if that is part of the Masons thing, or does that come from Joseph’s occult roots. Did he combine his occult stuff with Masonic stuff for the temple? Or is that binding power part of the Masonic ceremonies too?

I'm thinking occult for this

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-ne ... 180960129/

As Greek and Roman magic expert Derek Collins writes, binding spells had known formulas and named involved parties, like gods and people, and then connected them to actions or results. You could use a binding spell to invoke an upcoming athletic victory or ensure your happy marriage to a new partner—and to do so, you’d use powerful strings of words passed on by magicians or ordinary people.

This https://brill.com/view/book/edcoll/9789 ... 000028.xml
links binding spells to tablets and papyri something our boi JS was into anyway


I also found these binding spells: https://tesswhitehurst.com/the-good-wit ... g-a-bully/

Maybe I'll try them on Oaks.

[Thoughtful]

Annnnd.....if we want to really get into exploring this idea, the concept of sealing and binding is rooted occult. "I the Lord am bound". It comes from occult ideas that you can bind God or demons to make good on a deal, harness their power like a genie in a bottle and wield it to your own ends.

Yes, that is part of it.

I went through the temple when the “penalties” were still there. You swear to keep the signs and tokens secret, on threat of your life, literally pantomiming slitting your throat, gutting yourself. Yeah. So my first trip to the temple and all I can think is secret combinations and Gadianton robbers and this is evil, occult, and I’ve got to get out of here. The whole idea that secret signs and tokens can compel God is evil. I was sure I had gotten into something Satanic.

That idea of binding God, does anyone know if that is part of the Masons thing, or does that come from Joseph’s occult roots. Did he combine his occult stuff with Masonic stuff for the temple? Or is that binding power part of the Masonic ceremonies too?

I'm thinking occult for this

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-ne ... 180960129/

As Greek and Roman magic expert Derek Collins writes, binding spells had known formulas and named involved parties, like gods and people, and then connected them to actions or results. You could use a binding spell to invoke an upcoming athletic victory or ensure your happy marriage to a new partner—and to do so, you’d use powerful strings of words passed on by magicians or ordinary people.

This https://brill.com/view/book/edcoll/9789 ... 000028.xml
links binding spells to tablets and papyri something our boi JS was into anyway


I also found these binding spells: https://tesswhitehurst.com/the-good-wit ... g-a-bully/

Maybe I'll try them on Oaks.

Yep, occult. I realized it when I was doing some research after two different people who didn't know each other but claim to be "sensitive" or "medium" both said something to me about binding a supernatural force in the same day. And I started researching to fogure out what they were talking about and found temple language in spell books.

[Corsair]

That idea of binding God, does anyone know if that is part of the Masons thing, or does that come from Joseph’s occult roots. Did he combine his occult stuff with Masonic stuff for the temple? Or is that binding power part of the Masonic ceremonies too?

D&C 82:10

I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.

[Reuben]

That idea of binding God, does anyone know if that is part of the Masons thing, or does that come from Joseph’s occult roots. Did he combine his occult stuff with Masonic stuff for the temple? Or is that binding power part of the Masonic ceremonies too?

D&C 82:10

I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.

My mission president loved that verse. I believed it but wasn't too keen. Now I think it's a fine way to develop religious OCD and that it's distinctly anti-Christian.

I admit to having a hard time seeing how it relates to the occult beyond using the word "bound."

[Thoughtful]

That idea of binding God, does anyone know if that is part of the Masons thing, or does that come from Joseph’s occult roots. Did he combine his occult stuff with Masonic stuff for the temple? Or is that binding power part of the Masonic ceremonies too?

D&C 82:10

I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.

My mission president loved that verse. I believed it but wasn't too keen. Now I think it's a fine way to develop religious OCD and that it's distinctly anti-Christian.

I admit to having a hard time seeing how it relates to the occult beyond using the word "bound."

This article cites Quinn regarding the use of magic to control spirits/ forces in your favor vs religion to supplicate for divine assistance. It also discusses the term "keys" as it relates to seership.

http://mormonhistoricsites.org/wp-conte ... ll2001.pdf

There are others as well, but I will need to find them. Early mormonism and the magical worldview is a good source, but I have seen LDS verbiage in online transcripts of contemporary spellbooks as well, will look for that it's been several years.

[MoPag]

D&C 82:10

My mission president loved that verse. I believed it but wasn't too keen. Now I think it's a fine way to develop religious OCD and that it's distinctly anti-Christian.

I admit to having a hard time seeing how it relates to the occult beyond using the word "bound."

This article cites Quinn regarding the use of magic to control spirits/ forces in your favor vs religion to supplicate for divine assistance. It also discusses the term "keys" as it relates to seership.

http://mormonhistoricsites.org/wp-conte ... ll2001.pdf

There are others as well, but I will need to find them. Early mormonism and the magical worldview is a good source, but I have seen LDS verbiage in online transcripts of contemporary spellbooks as well, will look for that it's been several years.

All the "Alpha and Omega" stuff from D&C is in occult books sometimes called a Grimoire.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimoire

Here's one. Scroll down to the section titled How to activate the Seal of Solomon. You might notice some familiar language:
https://qz.com/1028177/can-you-read-the ... b-for-you/

Oh and you know how we have the Book of Moses in the POGP. Well, Book of Moses' are nothing new. Lot's of occultists wrote them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_and ... s_of_Moses