If I could ask them one question . . . Come Follow Me, Lesson 10

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annotatedbom
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If I could ask them one question . . . Come Follow Me, Lesson 10

Post by annotatedbom » Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:20 am

Come Follow Me, lesson 10, March 2-8, 2 Ne 31-33
Annotated BoM starting at 2 Nephi 31

For this Come Follow Me lesson, if I wanted to encourage thought and try to understand devout believers better, I might ask:

"Do all believers in Christ actually believe the Words of Nephi?"

or

“Could this one weird trick let you discern if someone is really a Christian?”

Click here to see the Things to consider for this lesson.

Enjoy!
A-Bom

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moksha
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Re: If I could ask them one question . . . Come Follow Me, Lesson 10

Post by moksha » Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:25 am

Do I believe Gandalf when he tells everyone to make haste for Helms Deep? Sure, it is part of the story and I am a fan. It is important for devoted readers to distinguish the story from real life, otherwise, they too might hasten to Helms Deep.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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annotatedbom
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Re: If I could ask them one question . . . Come Follow Me, Lesson 10

Post by annotatedbom » Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:26 am

moksha wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:25 am
Do I believe Gandalf when he tells everyone to make haste for Helms Deep? Sure, it is part of the story and I am a fan. It is important for devoted readers to distinguish the story from real life, otherwise, they too might hasten to Helms Deep.
Moksha,

Have I mentioned I love your humor? I remember years ago when I posted under a different name and you and your posts were new to me. Back then I didn't get you and your comments. That's not to say I completely understand all your allusions now, but you brighten my day with a smile and a chuckle on a regular basis.

Thanks for being you!

A-BoM

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Hagoth
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Re: If I could ask them one question . . . Come Follow Me, Lesson 10

Post by Hagoth » Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:05 pm

annotatedbom wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:26 am
I remember years ago when I posted under a different name...
So are you going to keep us in suspense?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Hagoth
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Re: If I could ask them one question . . . Come Follow Me, Lesson 10

Post by Hagoth » Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:07 pm

From my missionary experience I think Elder Berg in your example is more likely to be told that he isn't a Christian before he gets the chance to open his mouth. But then, I served in the deep, deep, deep South.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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2bizE
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Re: If I could ask them one question . . . Come Follow Me, Lesson 10

Post by 2bizE » Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:46 am

If the folks in the BoM were Jewish, why is there no mention of Jewish holidays, festivities, Shabbat, menorah, etc in it?
~2bizE

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Re: If I could ask them one question . . . Come Follow Me, Lesson 10

Post by jfro18 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:23 am

2bizE wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:46 am
If the folks in the BoM were Jewish, why is there no mention of Jewish holidays, festivities, Shabbat, menorah, etc in it?
This is a massive problem that is often lost in the "anachronism" narrative.

We always talk about what shouldn't be in the BoM but is anyway - and those problems are massive.

But then you look at what *should* be in there but isn't and it opens up an entirely new batch of problems.

Why do we not see any mentions of Jewish holidays, customs, etc as 2bizE points out?

Why do we not hear of the crops that would be of Mayan time like cocoa? Domesticating plants like cocoa or corn?

It's so easy to see how the BoM is a product of Joseph Smith's time it becomes silly when you start putting it all down in a list.

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annotatedbom
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Re: If I could ask them one question . . . Come Follow Me, Lesson 10

Post by annotatedbom » Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:31 am

Hagoth wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:05 pm
annotatedbom wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:26 am
I remember years ago when I posted under a different name...
So are you going to keep us in suspense?
Unfortunately, the missus asked that if I put the Annotated Book of Mormon out there, that I remain anonymous. I don't think anyone would connect all the dots from posts under my previous name, but there was enough info there that I decided to avoid the risk.

And, regarding your mission experience, hahaa! I wish I had thought of that. How often do non-Mormon Christians assert that Mormons are not Christian, and doesn't that usually get Mormon dander up in a flash? Maybe I'll add something about this on my site. Seems both sides of the Christian/not-Christian accusations could learn to apply the golden rule a little better on this point.

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Corsair
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Re: If I could ask them one question . . . Come Follow Me, Lesson 10

Post by Corsair » Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:34 am

jfro18 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:23 am
But then you look at what *should* be in there but isn't and it opens up an entirely new batch of problems.

Why do we not see any mentions of Jewish holidays, customs, etc as 2bizE points out?

Why do we not hear of the crops that would be of Mayan time like cocoa? Domesticating plants like cocoa or corn?

It's so easy to see how the BoM is a product of Joseph Smith's time it becomes silly when you start putting it all down in a list.
Apparently, the Nephites were too busy being "Proto-Christians" to have time to mention Jewish holidays. Seriously, I think this would be the excuse.

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jfro18
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Re: If I could ask them one question . . . Come Follow Me, Lesson 10

Post by jfro18 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:53 pm

Corsair wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:34 am
jfro18 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:23 am
But then you look at what *should* be in there but isn't and it opens up an entirely new batch of problems.

Why do we not see any mentions of Jewish holidays, customs, etc as 2bizE points out?

Why do we not hear of the crops that would be of Mayan time like cocoa? Domesticating plants like cocoa or corn?

It's so easy to see how the BoM is a product of Joseph Smith's time it becomes silly when you start putting it all down in a list.
Apparently, the Nephites were too busy being "Proto-Christians" to have time to mention Jewish holidays. Seriously, I think this would be the excuse.
It's the same excuse for all of the King James Bible or Christology issues - that God revealed Christian practices to them first and that even though it was never recorded, it all makes sense.

It's stupid, but it's a cover-all for the issues where they were doing things (or saying things) that were otherwise unknown.

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Advocate
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Re: If I could ask them one question . . . Come Follow Me, Lesson 10

Post by Advocate » Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:01 pm

Interesting thoughts Annotated, but I think you are reaching on this one (if you believe in Christ you believe Nephi and vice-versa). I'm ok with the rest of the discussion here. If anyone reads the text they'll see that Nephi is referring to the future:
10 And now, my beloved brethren, and also Jew, and all ye ends of the earth, hearken unto these words and believe in Christ; and if ye believe not in these words believe in Christ. And if ye shall believe in Christ ye will believe in these words, for they are the words of Christ, and he hath given them unto me; and they teach all men that they should do good.

11 And if they are not the words of Christ, judge ye—for Christ will show unto you, with power and great glory, that they are his words, at the last day; and you and I shall stand face to face before his bar; and ye shall know that I have been commanded of him to write these things, notwithstanding my weakness.
2 Nephi 33:10-11.

I think verse 11 is pretty clear that if some believes in Christ but doesn't believe Nephi, Nephi is saying Christ will convince them at the judgment bar.

So to answer your question as a believer, yes, everyone who believes in Christ will believe the words of Nephi someday. Some might believe today, others won't believe until the last day (i.e. judgment day).

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