Inspired by Apologeticsislying's post about lack of inspiration

Discussions toward a better understanding of LDS doctrine, history, and culture. Discussion of Christianity, religion, and faith in general is welcome.
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annotatedbom
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Inspired by Apologeticsislying's post about lack of inspiration

Post by annotatedbom » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:57 pm

Apologeticsislying started a great thread, "WHY Isn't Jesus Revealing RIGHT NOW?"

I agree completely about the LDS Church that claims to have prophets, seers, and revelators who seem to provide nothing by way of prophecy, seership, or revelation. Seems these guys actually think that the creator and master of the universe is preoccupied with silly things.

But, I wanted to take a tangent off of something Apologeticsislying wrote, so I'm posting here to not detract/hijack Apologeticsislying's thread.
Apologeticsislying wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:13 am
What IS religion actually able to do with this massive threat? Is there anything actually practical they can offer that would help out here?
I think this was all directed at the Mormon Church, so I'm not being critical here at all. In fact, I'm a non-theist who's pretty jaded toward most organized religion, theistic or not. But, I just want to acknowledge some of the strengths of religion. Some religions are great at some of these things:
  • Providing fellowship and community (though challenging while practicing social distancing)
  • Instilling a sense of purpose
  • Teaching of faith that leads to service
  • Assuring that redemption is possible
  • Inspiring kindness, love, goodness
I know there are plenty of weaknesses or failings of in many religions. I just wanted to acknowledge some of the good I see too. Anybody have thoughts on the strengths of religion in general, or on the strengths of some particular religion, perhaps your own faith?

Apologeticsislying
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Re: Inspired by Apologeticsislying's post about lack of inspiration

Post by Apologeticsislying » Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:05 pm

Great post amigo! Yes you have gracefully taken it far beyond my mere myopia, thank you. There is a lot of good all humans can do without worrying about which cult, er.......sect or religion one belongs to. We need to widen the quaint tribalism of religious thinking, and maturely expand out to common humanity in my opinion. You have a most excellent list there.
The same energy that emerges from the fountain of eternity into time, is the Holy Grail at the center of the universe of the inexhaustible vitality in each of our hearts. The Holy Grail, like the Kingdom of God, is within. -Joseph Campbell-

annotatedbom
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Re: Inspired by Apologeticsislying's post about lack of inspiration

Post by annotatedbom » Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:33 pm

Apologeticsislying,

I don’t think you were myopic at all. In fact, I think you could make a good argument that with Mormonism, the lack of revelation is the big picture when it comes to understanding the reality of Mormonism.

Shortsighted was me, years ago, right after my disaffection from la Iglesia, thinking I could help my wife see the Church isn’t what it claims, if only I could explain to her the facts as I understood them. Silly A-BoM.

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Hagoth
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Re: Inspired by Apologeticsislying's post about lack of inspiration

Post by Hagoth » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:53 am

I have definitely come to recognize the value of religion for many people. It doesn't work so well for those who lack or lose the ability to suspend disbelief, to take orders from people who claim man-behind-the-curtain authority, and for those who just can't believe in a personal God. But 90-plus percent of Americans do believe in a Biblical God. I see the value of faith for my wife and, although I am maybe too quick to call BS when I see it, I no longer try to dissuade her from believing because I realize that is where she finds hope.

In general, my faithful neighbors are some of the best people you will ever meet and are quick to do what they think is right. I credit the church for some of that. It keeps people within boundaries that, even though it shrinks their possibilities, also helps keep them out of trouble. As in any religion, some are condescending a-holes, but that's a slice of humanity that you will find anywhere.

My problem is with the self-righteousness and out-of-touchness that infects authority figures who have power over people's lives when they live in a bubble of sycophantic apple polishers. Right now, church members are desperately rallying around the men in the COB, grasping at any crumb that falls from them. And they're not getting much. Interpreting a global pandemic as God's demonstration that his prophet's study-at-home program is divinely inspired is not enough. I'm just crossing my fingers that those guys will step back and take in the bigger picture and get some sort of wake-up call before finally opening their mouths. Imagine the good that this church could do with its money, people, and resources if the goal became something other than expansion and conversion (i.e. "building up the kingdom")

In the meantime, the church has done an excellent job of producing mountains of publications and videos to keep their fold connected and inspired. Much of it is fake news, but there are a lot of gems in there too.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Fletch
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Re: Inspired by Apologeticsislying's post about lack of inspiration

Post by Fletch » Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:19 am

Hagoth wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:53 am
I have definitely come to recognize the value of religion for many people. It doesn't work so well for those who lack or lose the ability to suspend disbelief, to take orders from people who claim man-behind-the-curtain authority, and for those who just can't believe in a personal God. But 90-plus percent of Americans do believe in a Biblical God. I see the value of faith for my wife and, although I am maybe too quick to call BS when I see it, I no longer try to dissuade her from believing because I realize that is where she finds hope.

In general, my faithful neighbors are some of the best people you will ever meet and are quick to do what they think is right. I credit the church for some of that. It keeps people within boundaries that, even though it shrinks their possibilities, also helps keep them out of trouble. As in any religion, some are condescending a-holes, but that's a slice of humanity that you will find anywhere.

My problem is with the self-righteousness and out-of-touchness that infects authority figures who have power over people's lives when they live in a bubble of sycophantic apple polishers. Right now, church members are desperately rallying around the men in the COB, grasping at any crumb that falls from them. And they're not getting much. Interpreting a global pandemic as God's demonstration that his prophet's study-at-home program is divinely inspired is not enough. I'm just crossing my fingers that those guys will step back and take in the bigger picture and get some sort of wake-up call before finally opening their mouths. Imagine the good that this church could do with its money, people, and resources if the goal became something other than expansion and conversion (i.e. "building up the kingdom")

In the meantime, the church has done an excellent job of producing mountains of publications and videos to keep their fold connected and inspired. Much of it is fake news, but there are a lot of gems in there too.
Some of you are so much better than me in expressing your feelings and thoughts. Hagoth I could not agree more on everything you said in this post. I feel exactly the same way. The self righteous and out-of-toughness of some leaders really struck a cord along with everything else. Thank you, all of you, for taking the time to express your thoughts. I may not post much but I am here. This is a great place to read and ponder about where I am.

annotatedbom
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Re: Inspired by Apologeticsislying's post about lack of inspiration

Post by annotatedbom » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:59 am

Hagoth wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:53 am
My problem is with the self-righteousness and out-of-touchness that infects authority figures who have power over people's lives when they live in a bubble of sycophantic apple polishers. Right now, church members are desperately rallying around the men in the COB, grasping at any crumb that falls from them. And they're not getting much. Interpreting a global pandemic as God's demonstration that his prophet's study-at-home program is divinely inspired is not enough. I'm just crossing my fingers that those guys will step back and take in the bigger picture and get some sort of wake-up call before finally opening their mouths. Imagine the good that this church could do with its money, people, and resources if the goal became something other than expansion and conversion (i.e. "building up the kingdom")
^
This! At least as far as the fundamentalist-type religions like Mormonism, JW-ism, Scientology, radical . . . well . . . radical variations of maybe almost any sect. "We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion (D&C 121:39). Now, if only LDS leaders would radically focus on this verse. :cry:

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Exiled
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Re: Inspired by Apologeticsislying's post about lack of inspiration

Post by Exiled » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:32 am

annotatedbom wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:59 am
Hagoth wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:53 am
My problem is with the self-righteousness and out-of-touchness that infects authority figures who have power over people's lives when they live in a bubble of sycophantic apple polishers. Right now, church members are desperately rallying around the men in the COB, grasping at any crumb that falls from them. And they're not getting much. Interpreting a global pandemic as God's demonstration that his prophet's study-at-home program is divinely inspired is not enough. I'm just crossing my fingers that those guys will step back and take in the bigger picture and get some sort of wake-up call before finally opening their mouths. Imagine the good that this church could do with its money, people, and resources if the goal became something other than expansion and conversion (i.e. "building up the kingdom")
^
This! At least as far as the fundamentalist-type religions like Mormonism, JW-ism, Scientology, radical . . . well . . . radical variations of maybe almost any sect. "We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion (D&C 121:39). Now, if only LDS leaders would radically focus on this verse. :cry:
The sad thing is that I believe that the brethren have a big financial goal they want to reach in say 50 to 100 years (at least $1 Trillion maybe more) and then leverage this money into forcing, coercing, convincing society through holy p.r. to follow their wishes (which they obviously think are noble and good, I mean, just ask them and they will tell you). So, conveniently, the course is to give token charity while amassing their financial power.

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Exiled
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Re: Inspired by Apologeticsislying's post about lack of inspiration

Post by Exiled » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:41 am

Of course, we are left to speculate regarding what the brethren want to do with their money as they are religiously tight lipped about secrecy. It's as if their religion is secrecy and financial wealth for the organization while preaching whatever so the tithing revenues don't take too big of a hit. They cave periodically to society and then to their conservative baby boomer generation regarding LGTBQ. They don't have any standards regarding this and would probably not care regarding same sex marriage in their temples if that is what the majority wanted, once the baby boomers are gone. They don't have any magic for the corona virus. Their meetings are boring and mindlessly repetitious. Yet, they labor to hide their money and don't want tithing revenues to diminish. A former G.A. 70 was in my ward growing up and he was the head of one of the temple committees. He would always talk in terms of building temples and how tithing revenues increased in areas where temples were being built. Increased revenues was the goal. If one thinks about it, couldn't God have the prophet do all the temple work for an on behalf of all who have died and be done with it? But that would kill the if you build it they will come with their tithing money (always more than the cost of whatever temple is being built).

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