Home Church and Women

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moksha
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Home Church and Women

Post by moksha » Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:54 am

The issue was addressed on the Mormon D&D board regarding women in female-lead households "preparing, blessing, and administering the sacrament to their children".

Needless to say, almost all posters on that board were against it. Church stuff without a man present? Heresy! Call out the Danites at once!

What do you posters think about devout women doing this for their children?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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glass shelf
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Re: Home Church and Women

Post by glass shelf » Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:36 am

Devout women who are deep in probably won't be too interested in doing it.

On the other hand, it's all made up garbage, so if it makes them feel better, whatever. :D

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Red Ryder
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Re: Home Church and Women

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:31 am

I’m with glass. Whatever treehouse rules they change... they change!

I’m amazed at the seriousness of it all. What happened to the vacation card?

Families don’t break and bless the bread during a trip to Disneyland!

I’m realizing now it’s not just the FP and high leadership, but now the local church leaders are fighting to stay relevant. Please stop texting me if I’ve had the sacrament!
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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alas
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Re: Home Church and Women

Post by alas » Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:37 am

glass shelf wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:36 am
Devout women who are deep in probably won't be too interested in doing it.

On the other hand, it's all made up garbage, so if it makes them feel better, whatever. :D
This was also discussed on Exponent, one of the feminist blogs. Some of them are saying they are doing it. After all, Oaks said they get the priesthood when they go to the temple, and he says that a mother’s prayer is just as honored as a priesthood blessing, and that women use priesthood in their callings.....so, either women are really second class and are less in the Mormon church than their 12 year old ordained son, or they have a form of priesthood given to them in the temple and they use it as delegated to them in callings and motherhood and head of the home IS a calling. If the father can do it in his calling, why not the mother in her calling. Oaks said women use priesthood in their callings and what greater calling than mother, right?

You know, the church wants it both ways. Women are equal and use priesthood in their callings AND women don’t have priesthood because they are not ordained to it, so they can’t use it to bless the sacrament and bless babies. They want it both ways that menand women are equal partners in marriage, BUT men preside because they have priesthood. But it makes absolutely no sense to say equal, but preside. It makes no sense to say women exercise priesthood in their callings because they are set apart but men have to be ordained to exercise priesthood in their callings.

Oaks talk where he said women exercise priesthood in their calling when they are set apart to do so by priesthood, bla bla bla was a bunch of nonsense. It totally did not make sense. Either women DO, or they DON’T. They cannot have it both ways, and yet his talk trying to placate women that they really are not second class was just that. A talk trying to placate the second class that they really are not second class, but that they are second class. Now, do you understand, that I have made this clear as mud?

But Oaks didn’t face the contradictions in his ow talk. If a “Mother’s prayer” is just as honored as “priesthood” then what good is priesthood? If women who are set apart in callings by some priesthood guy use his priesthood, they why really is it different for men when they are set apart in a calling? If Jane Sunday school teacher uses the priesthood of Joe bishopric who set her apart, then why does John Sunday school teacher use his own priesthood when Joe bishopric set him apart too? What is this magical difference and why does more than one person need priesthood, when everyone is set apart in their calling by somebody above them? Maybe there is no difference and it is all made up crap.

Oaks’ confusing talk really exposed the fact that it is all made up crap and they have no idea why men have priesthood, but since it makes men superior....oops, since Christ ordained apostles....no, Christ called apostles, no evidence he ordained them, since they want men to have some glorious “thing” that makes them above...equal to but preside over...no, preside next to over their equally presiding under wife.

In the early days of the church women used priesthood to lay on hands and bless the sick and to bless women before childbirth. So, obviously we are missing something.

Perhaps it is because some women were given the second anointing and actually ordained to the priesthood of their husband, which is what the early church women believed, and maybe that is why women use priesthood in the temple today and the leaders just don’t want to explain about second anointing and priesthood of her husband, because they don’t want us second class not second anointed smucks to know there is something they are keeping secret.

They want their hierarchy with them on top, but they don’t want the second class to feel second class, so they twist words, leave out information, don’t explain what the endowment really means, and give very confusing talks about how women have priesthood given to them in the temple but really don’t have priesthood and how women use priesthood in their callings but are really using the borrowed priesthood of the guy who set them apart but men don’t use the priesthood of the guy who set them apart, but women are really not second class, we just treat them as second class, and we have this special ceremony for the very righteous that we won’t tell you about cause you are not righteous enough where we actually do ordain women, but they really are not ordained because we can’t tell you about it because it is supper special and you aren’t, but God loves you just not as much as he loves us.

And if my last sentence/paragraph was confusing, well so is their explanation of priesthood and how it makes those who have it special without making those who don’t have it less special.

Joseph Smith was like Buddy in the Incredibles movie who wanted to be special but because he wasn’t he wanted to prove just how special he really was and then make everybody special, so nobody would be special, but still be more special himself. And the church is still suffering from the Buddy complex. Everybody is special, but some are more special than others.

Apologeticsislying
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Re: Home Church and Women

Post by Apologeticsislying » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:03 pm

moksha wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:54 am
The issue was addressed on the Mormon D&D board regarding women in female-lead households "preparing, blessing, and administering the sacrament to their children".

Needless to say, almost all posters on that board were against it. Church stuff without a man present? Heresy! Call out the Danites at once!

What do you posters think about devout women doing this for their children?
The church patriarchy is absurdly stupid. If I were a believing single mom with kids at home, you can bet your bottom dollar I would be blessing sacrament, giving blessings, etc. I wouldn't give a fly's soup bone what the idiots thought. What, is God gonna smite me? LOL.....
The same energy that emerges from the fountain of eternity into time, is the Holy Grail at the center of the universe of the inexhaustible vitality in each of our hearts. The Holy Grail, like the Kingdom of God, is within. -Joseph Campbell-

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Fifi de la Vergne
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Re: Home Church and Women

Post by Fifi de la Vergne » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:27 am

A private ex-Mormon women's group had this entry from one of its members yesterday:
My husband is on a ward council Zoom meeting trying to figure out the magic sacrament rules.

What if someone went to the church, blessed the sacrament, then people could come and pick up the blessed bread?.....no the magic will run out in the time it takes to come get it

What if someone Skyped with a family and blessed the bread in the family's home?.....no magic doesn't work over Skype, blessing don't go through the internet

What if someone blessed the bread then brought to people already blessed?....nope the magic doesn't work if you don't hear the prayer.

What if someone blessed the bread in their own house, with the family watching over skype, then they brought the bread over to the people?.......Maybe......if they live close to each other, the family might be able to get it before the magic escapes.

FINAL CONCLUSION: If the family watches the bread being blessed, then it is delivered to them within the amount of time that it normally takes to bless the sacrament, the magic still works. But it has be to be a video chat, it doesn't work if they can't see you.
Joy is the emotional expression of the courageous Yes to one's own true being.

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wtfluff
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Re: Home Church and Women

Post by wtfluff » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:00 am

Fifi de la Vergne wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:27 am
A private ex-Mormon women's group had this entry from one of its members yesterday:
My husband is on a ward council Zoom meeting trying to figure out the magic sacrament rules.

What if someone went to the church, blessed the sacrament, then people could come and pick up the blessed bread?.....no the magic will run out in the time it takes to come get it

What if someone Skyped with a family and blessed the bread in the family's home?.....no magic doesn't work over Skype, blessing don't go through the internet

What if someone blessed the bread then brought to people already blessed?....nope the magic doesn't work if you don't hear the prayer.

What if someone blessed the bread in their own house, with the family watching over skype, then they brought the bread over to the people?.......Maybe......if they live close to each other, the family might be able to get it before the magic escapes.

FINAL CONCLUSION: If the family watches the bread being blessed, then it is delivered to them within the amount of time that it normally takes to bless the sacrament, the magic still works. But it has be to be a video chat, it doesn't work if they can't see you.
The highlighted statement above is an excellent insight. There's absolutely no reason to watch/listen to anything that "the church" ever publishes in digital form, because magick doesn't work over the internet... (That ABSOLUTELY includes General Conference.)

I'm SO GLAD I don't have to perform mental gymnastics like this any more.

EDIT: To highlight the statement a bit better.
Last edited by wtfluff on Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

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Exiled
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Re: Home Church and Women

Post by Exiled » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:38 am

Why not let women make stuff up too? They might make up some interesting things if allowed.

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2bizE
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Re: Home Church and Women

Post by 2bizE » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:43 am

There is an article/Mormonland audio on SLtrib about this same issue. A woman wrote to church leader, JFS, and was told to say the sacrament prayer and meditate.
~2bizE

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MoPag
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Re: Home Church and Women

Post by MoPag » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:29 am

alas wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:37 am

They want their hierarchy with them on top, but they don’t want the second class to feel second class, so they twist words, leave out information, don’t explain what the endowment really means, and give very confusing talks about how women have priesthood given to them in the temple but really don’t have priesthood and how women use priesthood in their callings but are really using the borrowed priesthood of the guy who set them apart but men don’t use the priesthood of the guy who set them apart, but women are really not second class, we just treat them as second class, and we have this special ceremony for the very righteous that we won’t tell you about cause you are not righteous enough where we actually do ordain women, but they really are not ordained because we can’t tell you about it because it is supper special and you aren’t, but God loves you just not as much as he loves us.
:lol: OMGs this is EXACTLY how they sound. And TBM women eat it up! It's so annoying.
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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MoPag
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Re: Home Church and Women

Post by MoPag » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:29 am

alas wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:37 am

They want their hierarchy with them on top, but they don’t want the second class to feel second class, so they twist words, leave out information, don’t explain what the endowment really means, and give very confusing talks about how women have priesthood given to them in the temple but really don’t have priesthood and how women use priesthood in their callings but are really using the borrowed priesthood of the guy who set them apart but men don’t use the priesthood of the guy who set them apart, but women are really not second class, we just treat them as second class, and we have this special ceremony for the very righteous that we won’t tell you about cause you are not righteous enough where we actually do ordain women, but they really are not ordained because we can’t tell you about it because it is supper special and you aren’t, but God loves you just not as much as he loves us.
:lol: OMGs this is EXACTLY how they sound. And TBM women eat it up! It's so annoying.
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: Home Church and Women

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:16 am

I just told my wife the JFS letter story after she announced the neighbor and his son will be coming over tomorrow to give the sacrament. It pisses me off but I will be off hiking or something so whatever.

Wonderment
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Re: Home Church and Women

Post by Wonderment » Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:54 pm

Oaks’ confusing talk really exposed the fact that it is all made up crap and they have no idea why men have priesthood, but since it makes men superior....oops, since Christ ordained apostles....no, Christ called apostles, no evidence he ordained them, since they want men to have some glorious “thing” that makes them above...equal to but preside over...no, preside next to over their equally presiding under wife.
I just called out one of these TBM women on social media who thinks of herself as a "liberal" and therefore gives a "liberal" explanation just like this one.She was explaining that Utah was such a liberal state because it was one of the first who granted women the right to vote, and Mormon women have always been "liberal" about women's rights. I told her that her that was absolute nonsense. I try not to get into arguments, but this kind of gaslighting is disturbing. Yes, women were given the right to vote in Utah early on in the suffrage movement, but what did they do with it? Often, they elected extremely conservative politicians and agreed to extremely oppressive church policies. - Wndr.

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