When Jesus Comes Again

[2bizE]

I remember a song from primary about when Jesus comes again...
With all the plagues and earthquakes, it is clear to some that the end is near. That Christ will be descending from the planet near Kolob where God lives to visit us. I hope to be alive when this happens. I can’t wait to attend, hopefully in person, but perhaps by video conferencing, when the prophet signs over the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints corporate Sole over to Jesus. Jesus will obviously sign the documents as a platoon of lawyers observe, and he will have sole ownership of Hundreds of Billions in cash and a$$ets. Jesus will be listed in the top few richest on Earth in Fortune magazine. The pinnacle will then be complete as the great Jehova declares to the world from the deck of a large aircraft carrier “The Work is Done.” I just hope I don’t get coronavirus and die before this great day.

[wtfluff]

I remember a song from primary about when Jesus comes again...
With all the plagues and earthquakes, it is clear to some that the end is near. That Christ will be descending from the planet near Kolob where God lives to visit us. I hope to be alive when this happens. ...

You're in luck! If you believe Rusty Nelson, then you only have to wait until April 4th or 5th of 2020.

If you're a Warren Jeffs fan... Well, the last time he predicted Jesus would be back, his followers weren't righteous enough, so... REPENT, and keep sweet.

And if you're a Lori Vallow Daybell fan, you only have to wait until July.

You likely have more than an 80% chance of surviving the pandemic, so odds are in your favor on multiple fronts.

[Apologeticsislying]

Jesus has so much to answer for, I am not all that sure he would be welcomed. We've done it this well and come this far, what good are you dude? Go back home. I mean is there any possible justification for waiting for over 2,000 years?! When he COULD have been a loving parent, he heinously took the criminal road of complete negligence. That is NOT O.K.

[Hagoth]

Jesus will obviously sign the documents as a platoon of lawyers observe, and he will have sole ownership of Hundreds of Billions in cash and a$$ets.

And then he and Nelson will roll around in it together, Scrooge McDuck style.

[Palerider]

Jesus has so much to answer for, I am not all that sure he would be welcomed. We've done it this well and come this far, what good are you dude? Go back home. I mean is there any possible justification for waiting for over 2,000 years?! When he COULD have been a loving parent, he heinously took the criminal road of complete negligence. That is NOT O.K.

Sorry but I'm not seeing the Savior as being responsible for all the crap that we have pulled here on Earth.

I think having free will or agency means at some point we had to have agreed or wanted to come here and participate, in spite of the difficulties this life presents.

If someone wants God to swoop in and make or force everything and everyone to be all warm and fuzzy, where do we want Him to start?

Everytime we start to profane when we hit our thumb with a hammer? Everytime someone looks at another individual with sexual thoughts? Everytime we want to give someone the finger for being a bad driver? How about when our spouse or kid does something wrong and we want to raise our voice a little? What about when someone wants to smoke a little weed or a cigarette? Where do you want God to take control of your and everyone else's life?

My point is, the exercise here on Earth, is that we do (as you infer) create ourselves to a certain extent. And we do that through our decisions that are made under real life circumstances that have pros and cons, not through thought experiments.

The justification for waiting 2000 years could very well be that those who are still waiting and really want to come to Earth school haven't been fulfilled yet. It might be next year, it may take another 1000. Who knows?

Ask yourself this question. "Has my life here been a complete and utter waste and do you wish you had never been born?" Have you learned absolutely NOTHING from having been here?

Would you tell someone else who wanted to come here not to come? That it's totally worthless? It's all BAD. Nothing good comes from this life, even in it's current form. Think of those people who say, I would NEVER bring children into this world. Think of those who can't have children and would sacrifice greatly to do so. Where do you come down?

Anyway there's my rant. I expect some slings and arrows but.....it wouldn't be the first time.

[moksha]

We are the ones we've been waiting for
We are the love that we seek
We are the seeds we have sown
We are the harvest we reap.

[Hagoth]

I think having free will or agency means at some point we had to have agreed or wanted to come here and participate, in spite of the difficulties this life presents.

And that assumes a pre-existent spirit with the capacity to want. If you take that out of the picture life on earth is the difference between existing and not existing. In a worldview that has no pre-existence if you never get born you can't continue to exist into eternity anyway because there would never have been a you.

Jesus and his followers seemed to think the 2nd coming was just around the corner, and people have continued to believe that for the last 2000 years. How many millennial Christians of the past, including 19th and 20th century Mormons, would have been shocked if you sent them a time-telegram from the year 2020 that said, "Nope, He hasn't come yet." Maybe the anticipation of Jesus is the important part, the nagging reminder that you need to get/keep your life in order. Jesus said the Kingdom of God is within us and he promised to send the second comforter. Maybe it would be useful for more Christian traditions to just call that the Second Coming and ratchet the end-of-days rhetoric down a few notches and stop scaring the hell out of decent, faithful people with scary Bible stories that weren't actually talking about our times anyway.

I love the part of The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, where we meet the followers of the Great Prophet Zarquon, who have been anxiously awaiting awaiting his second coming for millions and millions of years. To their relief, he shows up just at the last moment, says "Sorry I'm late," and then the universe ends.

[Apologeticsislying]

Jesus has so much to answer for, I am not all that sure he would be welcomed. We've done it this well and come this far, what good are you dude? Go back home. I mean is there any possible justification for waiting for over 2,000 years?! When he COULD have been a loving parent, he heinously took the criminal road of complete negligence. That is NOT O.K.

Sorry but I'm not seeing the Savior as being responsible for all the crap that we have pulled here on Earth.

I think having free will or agency means at some point we had to have agreed or wanted to come here and participate, in spite of the difficulties this life presents.

If someone wants God to swoop in and make or force everything and everyone to be all warm and fuzzy, where do we want Him to start?

Everytime we start to profane when we hit our thumb with a hammer? Everytime someone looks at another individual with sexual thoughts? Everytime we want to give someone the finger for being a bad driver? How about when our spouse or kid does something wrong and we want to raise our voice a little? What about when someone wants to smoke a little weed or a cigarette? Where do you want God to take control of your and everyone else's life?

My point is, the exercise here on Earth, is that we do (as you infer) create ourselves to a certain extent. And we do that through our decisions that are made under real life circumstances that have pros and cons, not through thought experiments.

The justification for waiting 2000 years could very well be that those who are still waiting and really want to come to Earth school haven't been fulfilled yet. It might be next year, it may take another 1000. Who knows?

Ask yourself this question. "Has my life here been a complete and utter waste and do you wish you had never been born?" Have you learned absolutely NOTHING from having been here?

Would you tell someone else who wanted to come here not to come? That it's totally worthless? It's all BAD. Nothing good comes from this life, even in it's current form. Think of those people who say, I would NEVER bring children into this world. Think of those who can't have children and would sacrifice greatly to do so. Where do you come down?

Anyway there's my rant. I expect some slings and arrows but.....it wouldn't be the first time.

Not a rant, but many salient points, as usual........thanks. Yes I sometimes go for the drama queen idea, it shows just how far in my brain the Mormon teachings have been instilled. I was told I could always rely on Jesus to be there for me, and for Heavenly Father to ALWAYS come through in dire circumstances. almost 60 years of life have shown me the pie in the sky meaning of such a teaching in the church, But you are absolutely correct Palerider, that it is NOT all bad, and I made it sound that way. It still does not exonerate Jesus from all the unnecessary suffering, however.

[Exiled]

I don't think Jesus, the actual man who may or may not have existed so long ago, is to blame for anything really. The myth surrounding him is to blame for a false reality. Those who perpetuate belief in the myth as a solution to anything are to blame for giving false remedies. Random chance is to blame for some things and people are to blame for others. ________ happens. The corona virus happens, but belief in a myth doesn't solve anything, except maybe when it acts as a placebo for those who have problems dealing with reality. But even then, the better response is to face reality as it is, instead of running back to a myth that has no proof and only wishful thinking. It's better to dig down and solve today's problems as best you can rather than to pray and hope for some mythical future world that doesn't exist.

By the way, he isn't coming back. Sorry to spoil the false hope some have who may read this.

[Palerider]

I think having free will or agency means at some point we had to have agreed or wanted to come here and participate, in spite of the difficulties this life presents.

And that assumes a pre-existent spirit with the capacity to want. If you take that out of the picture life on earth is the difference between existing and not existing.

Absolutely.

If one holds to the possibility that our lives or life choices here have any meaning beyond the grave then a logical assumption has to be made that we weren't forced to come here. Justice demands that we cannot be held responsible for what we are forced to do.

Biblical scriptures are "relatively" silent on this concept of pre-existence. (Edited here for clarity)

But for me the logical alternative of existence with eternal meaning is nihilism and then ultimately annihilation. And I have experience in numerous ways that preclude that as a possibility.

I agree initially some disciples thought the return of Christ would be not long after his Ascension. I'm not sure Christ himself thought or taught that. But regardless, if one looks at the length of time involved from the very first Old Testament indications of a coming Messiah to the time of his first coming, the 2000 years since the first coming really aren't that far out of line.

But I agree, if you could send word back to those in the past, even to the 4th century and tell them it's 2020 and no appearance by the Savior so far.....they would likely be astounded.
Which is also why current LDS leadership is, in my opinion, a little lost. Though they wouldn't say as much I think many of them were truly believing that that 7th seal was going to be opened at the year 2000.

Surprise!

It's almost as if God is saying, "Remember that part where I said 'No man knoweth the day or the hour of His coming?' Well, I meant it. And that includes you too Mormons."

So they continue the old "prepare a people" line. What else can they do but try to scare people. It's their only playbook. To seek goodness for it's own sake and virtue for it's own reward without a fire insurance policy won't get that 100 B fund built and increased even.

[w2mz]

I don't think Jesus, the actual man who may or may not have existed so long ago, is to blame for anything really. The myth surrounding him is to blame for a false reality. Those who perpetuate belief in the myth as a solution to anything are to blame for giving false remedies. Random chance is to blame for some things and people are to blame for others. ________ happens. The corona virus happens, but belief in a myth doesn't solve anything, except maybe when it acts as a placebo for those who have problems dealing with reality. But even then, the better response is to face reality as it is, instead of running back to a myth that has no proof and only wishful thinking. It's better to dig down and solve today's problems as best you can rather than to pray and hope for some mythical future world that doesn't exist.

By the way, he isn't coming back. Sorry to spoil the false hope some have who may read this.

Exactly.

I think that organized religion has extorted the human mind long enough. They take a human evolved need for social connection, tie it to a physical emotion (elevation) to create their product - faith. Then they use the natural fear/uncertainty of death to instill fear that the individual can only be saved by buying into a specific rule set that just coincidentally they are selling.

The sooner people realize that we/people are the only hope for humanity’s longevity the better.

I’m good with the philosophies of Jesus, I.e. be kind to each other etc., but like exiled said above there is no barefoot, white robed, bearded god dude that will be sailing in from outer space to kick ass and then rule and reign. That ain’t happening so let’s work together.

[Hagoth]

Then they use the natural fear/uncertainty of death to instill fear that the individual can only be saved by buying into a specific rule set that just coincidentally they are selling.

I have no way of knowing whether or not there is some sort of eternal situation that we might call salvation, but if there is I'm inclined to believe that it is a built-in feature of the standard package. Nobody gets a better deal than anyone else in the long run. I now find it impossible to believe in a God that would create billions upon billions of intelligent beings, throw them into the harsh realities of this planet (few people in history have lived the charmed lives that we do) without popping in on each of them at least once to say "hey, I'm God. How's it going?" let alone condemn them to an even sh*ttier afterlife for eternity if they don't follow the rules of some guy who claims to speak/write for God, no matter how old his book is or how many admirers he has.

God, in my opinion, is the experience of the bigger Everything that is impossible for us to comprehend, let alone obey.

[w2mz]

Thanks for the reminder Hagoth. I agree, there is no way to really KNOW for sure what is going to happen. I’m totally fine with letting people believe whatever makes them happy, especially right now. And in turn, I can believe whatever makes me happy.

My previous post (above) is just my opinion and my conclusion based upon my interpretation of evidence and my own experience.