The Odyssey of Thomas Stuart Ferguson by Stan Larson

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Red Ryder
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The Odyssey of Thomas Stuart Ferguson by Stan Larson

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:00 am

Suffering from a bout of insomnia I came across an article about Thomas Stewart Ferguson. Perhaps he was one of the best unknown NOM’s and closet unbeliever of his time.

Although trained as a lawyer, he pursued archeology and led expositions searching for Book of Mormon evidence in Mexico in the 1950’s - 1960’s before concluding there wasn’t any evidence. He then came across the Book of Abraham papyri and independently reached out to 4 Egyptologist who confirmed the papyri were funeral excerpts from the book of the dead.

Ferguson met with Hugh B Brown and declared his unbelief in the prophet Joseph Smith’s ability to translate both the book of Mormon and book of Abraham. By his account, HBB agreed with him privately.

Ferguson kept his membership in the church based on the community and fraternity aspects that he enjoyed.

The best quote most of us NOMs can relate to:
Belonging, with my eyes wide open, is actually fun, less expensive than for- merly, and no strain at all. I am now very selective in the meetings I attend, the functions I attend, the amounts I contribute etc. etc. and I have a perfectly happy time. I never get up and bear testimony—but I don't mind listening to others who do. I am much more tolerant of other religions and other thinking and feel fine about things in general. You might give my suggestions a trial run—and if you find you have to burn all the bridges between yourselves and the Church, then go ahead and ask for excommunication. The day will probably come—but it is far off—when the leadership of the Church will change the excommunication rules and delete as grounds non-belief in the 2 books mentioned [the Book of Abraham and the Book of Mormon] and in Joseph Smith as a prophet etc but if you wait for that day, you probably will have died. It is a long way off—tithing would drop too much for one thing. (Ferguson 1976a
It’s a short read and well worth the time.

The Odyssey of Thomas Stuart Ferguson
By Stan Larson

https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-cont ... N01_57.pdf
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

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moksha
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Re: The Odyssey of Thomas Stuart Ferguson by Stan Larson

Post by moksha » Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:02 am

When Ferguson asked the Church for money to fund his archeological expeditions, they were in a bit of a pickle. They did not believe he would find anything, but the feared that by not funding the expedition they would look like disbelievers in Joseph's stories.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Exiled
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Re: The Odyssey of Thomas Stuart Ferguson by Stan Larson

Post by Exiled » Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:32 am

Well, the church with its billions isn't doing much digging in central america and still hasn't looked for the stone box on the N.Y. hill cumorah that supposedly contained the plates. They realize that absence of evidence equals evidence of absence with each failed dig and the fund suffers too.

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Red Ryder
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Re: The Odyssey of Thomas Stuart Ferguson by Stan Larson

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:05 pm

Exiled wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:32 am
Well, the church with its billions isn't doing much digging in central america and still hasn't looked for the stone box on the N.Y. hill cumorah that supposedly contained the plates. They realize that absence of evidence equals evidence of absence with each failed dig and the fund suffers too.
I think Ferguson’s expeditions and subsequent loss of faith plus the Book of Abraham papyri find put an end to any future search for archeological evidence. No need to search the Hill Cumorah and risk a big fat unwanted nada that would cause Mormons to think.

In fact I think the 1950’s and 1960’s were the golden times for Mormonism. The church fundamentally shifted in the 1970’s to acclimate to changing world views and remained a net positive through the 1990’s. It want until the internet came around and began to expose the whitewashed history and carefully crafted narrative. THe church no longer controls its narrative but continues to make adjustments through carefully worded denials in essays and new programs and rebranding.

Interesting times are ahead as world events continue to push against the fairy tale of Mormonism.
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

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Hagoth
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Re: The Odyssey of Thomas Stuart Ferguson by Stan Larson

Post by Hagoth » Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:57 am

moksha wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:02 am
When Ferguson asked the Church for money to fund his archeological expeditions, they were in a bit of a pickle. They did not believe he would find anything, but the feared that by not funding the expedition they would look like disbelievers in Joseph's stories.
That's an interesting observation Moksha, and I suspect it's the reason the church is showing no official interest in archaeology today except as a field of apologetic endeavor. Also, in these of instant media coverage news articles that say "church invests millions, finds zilch" would be unwelcome.

Today I think they would likely say that God has given us all the evidence we need but it is your faith that is the important factor (the theme of the Gospel Doctrine Essays). Back in Ferguson's day I imagine there were some church leaders who assumed he would find something, some who hoped he would find something, some who assumed he wouldn't find anything, and maybe one or two forward-thinkers who hoped he would find something ambiguous that could be apoligist-ized in the church's favor.

The Book of Abraham is a big, early-readers coloring book version of the Book of Mormon problem. Church leaders had made statements that if we could find the original parchment it would prove Joseph Smith was a prophet. We did. It didn't. If fact, just the opposite. Should be the end of the story, but big wheels keep on turnin' and they plow the plain and simple truth as deep as they can and make it all about whether or not YOU have adequate faith to prove to yourself that it's true.

p.s. I have come to the conclusion that "arm of flesh" is an innuendo to describe this naughty little organ:
Image

BTW, Larson wrote a fascinating book about Ferguson and his activities with the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham. It's called Quest For The Gold Plates.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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moksha
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Re: The Odyssey of Thomas Stuart Ferguson by Stan Larson

Post by moksha » Fri May 01, 2020 5:07 am

Here is an article for the NOMinees: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/01 ... -his-faith
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Hagoth
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Re: The Odyssey of Thomas Stuart Ferguson by Stan Larson

Post by Hagoth » Fri May 01, 2020 8:27 am

moksha wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 5:07 am
Here is an article for the NOMinees: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/01 ... -his-faith
I enjoyed the little video too.

Mormon archaeologist have done, and continue to do, some very good work in Mesoamerica. The one thing you will never hear them talk or write about in professional circles is the Book of Mormon.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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moksha
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Re: The Odyssey of Thomas Stuart Ferguson by Stan Larson

Post by moksha » Fri May 01, 2020 10:40 am

Hagoth wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 8:27 am
I enjoyed the little video too.
If I understood her right, Ferguson was the person who commissioned Egyptologists to translated the newly discovered Joseph Smith papyri in the New York Metropolitan Museum. Ferguson was crestfallen when they reported the scrolls were from the Egyptian Book of the Dead.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Hagoth
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Re: The Odyssey of Thomas Stuart Ferguson by Stan Larson

Post by Hagoth » Sat May 02, 2020 10:10 am

moksha wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 10:40 am
If I understood her right, Ferguson was the person who commissioned Egyptologists to translated the newly discovered Joseph Smith papyri in the New York Metropolitan Museum. Ferguson was crestfallen when they reported the scrolls were from the Egyptian Book of the Dead.
That's right. Ferguson was excited about the recovery of the papyri and wanted to learn everything he could about them. He first approached Milton R. Hunter of the Seventy who said Hugh Nibley had told him the non-LDS Egyptologists "wouldn't touch them [the papyri]with a ten-foot pole," and that the church wouldn't release them until LDS scholars had first provided their own translation. So Ferguson went directly to Aziz S. Atiya, who had discovered the papyri in the Metropolitan Museum's collection. Apparently Atiya gave him a copy because he then approached some Egyptologists at Berkeley who broke the news that the papyri were just excerpts from the Book of the Dead. Ferguson kept at it until he had acquired 4 independent translations, none of which were sponsored by the church and all of which were very bad news for Joseph Smith's claims. The whole time Ferguson was desperately trying to maintain his faith in the BoM and, like many before him, eventually came to the conclusion the Joseph had legitimately translated the BoM but had become a fallen prophet by 1835 when he started translating the BoA. And we know how quickly things can go downhill from there, don't we?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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moksha
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Re: The Odyssey of Thomas Stuart Ferguson by Stan Larson

Post by moksha » Sat May 02, 2020 4:02 pm

Wish Joseph had lived long enough to publish the book based on the Kinderhook plates. Those darned Carthage, Illinois ruffians!
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Hagoth
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Re: The Odyssey of Thomas Stuart Ferguson by Stan Larson

Post by Hagoth » Sun May 03, 2020 7:49 am

moksha wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:02 pm
Wish Joseph had lived long enough to publish the book based on the Kinderhook plates. Those darned Carthage, Illinois ruffians!
wouldn't it be fascinating to see the apologetics that would have accompanied that scripture. The BoA gun is smoking up the place like a house on fire but most members don't seem to be able to see the fire for the smoke, so I'm sure those really smart guys at BYU would do a similar act of smoke (I see a pattern developing here) and mirrors for the Kinderhook translation. Today we would have a Gospel Topics essay that explains it very clearly in the choose-your-own-adventure-story format as the other essays. We might be told:

a) We don't have the real kinderhook plates. Evil, conspiring men swapped them out with obvious fakes to make Joseph look bad.

b) Even though the plates are apparently modern, the person writing on them was inspired to write a true record but he lacked the skill to do it coherently, so Joseph had to interpret them. God was using fakery as a tool to get the message across, just like he used hat tricks occult treasure digging to prepare Joseph to translate the BoM

c) Of course the plates are fake. We always knew that, but they served as a catalyst for Joseph to receive the real story via revelation.

And, most importantly:

d) These are all insignificant details. It's what the translation says that's important, and if you were in tune with the spirit you wouldn't even be doubting. What you need to worry about is what is going on in your life that makes you unworthy to receive this great gift of the spirit. It's not about whether or not the Kinderhook plates are true, it's about whether or not YOU are true to the Kinderhook plates.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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moksha
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Re: The Odyssey of Thomas Stuart Ferguson by Stan Larson

Post by moksha » Sun May 03, 2020 7:57 am

Hagoth wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 7:49 am
It's not about whether or not the Kinderhook plates are true, it's about whether or not YOU are true to the Kinderhook plates.
Double amen to that Brother Hagoth, now go spread the good news in Priesthood meeting today! :D
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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