RFM: Nothign Up My Sleeve...

[Just This Guy]

RFM as done a two part episode looking at the translation of the BOM through the eyes of a stage magician.

Yeah it may be cliche, but this could be groundbreaking in explaining early Mormonism. By viewing some of early Mormoism as simple parlor trick, suddenly it opens up explanations for how stuff was done that are much more reasonable than we previously thought.

Part 1: https://radiofreemormon.org/2020/05/rad ... of-mormon/
Part 2: https://radiofreemormon.org/2020/05/rad ... on-part-2/

Highly recommended.

[Just This Guy]

A couple things I learned were with regard to the head in the hat:

1. The hat was in fact white, not black as normally depicted.
2. JSjr's scribes were given many warning to not look at JSjr while he was "translating" under threat of divine anger and death.

From there, the rock itself is a red herring. So much effort is on the rock, and that is pure stage magic to take your attention away from the real heart of the trick: the hat. With the hat being white, it is translucent enough that someone can read something inside it. JSjr may have simply had notes stashed in the hat that he read from and built the story of the BOM from there. The warnings not to look at him, and being busy as a scrip let JS maintain the trick.

RFM looks through other early Mormon events and explains how they could have been done using simple parlor tricks to hide what was going on.

Like the great James Randi, when you look at thing through the eyes of a stage magician, sometimes the explanation of the supernatural is obvious. People commonly miss the trick to the magic show, but once someone points it out to you, you smack yourself for failing to see how obvious it is.

[Palerider]

I'm sticking with the pinhole hat trick. The Chinese learned about this phenomenon five centuries B.C.

It can even be done with your fingers if you play with it for awhile. But a hat would be perfect. Trying to read something inside a hat while your face was inside it would strain your close-up vision. It can be used even when you have good eyesight.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/arti ... trick.html

[Yobispo]

I thought RFM did a great job with this. It's a new angle, something we rarely get. And the BoM translation is the one thing that I've never seen a good explanation for.

One thing RFM didn't mention was the pulpit-curtain trick he did in Kirtland. Remember how he dropped a curtain around himself (and Sydney or Oliver, i forget) and then a few minutes later lifted it to tell everyone that JC and Moses and others had been there. And the audience believed it, something as utterly ridiculous as "sorry folks, but Jesus will only talk to me if you can't see him". That story adds credibility, IMO, to RFM's assertion that it could have all been parlor tricks - and that he was crazy good at it and had a perfect audience.

Give em Hell, RFM!

[blazerb]

I thought RFM did a great job with this. It's a new angle, something we rarely get. And the BoM translation is the one thing that I've never seen a good explanation for.

One thing RFM didn't mention was the pulpit-curtain trick he did in Kirtland. Remember how he dropped a curtain around himself (and Sydney or Oliver, i forget) and then a few minutes later lifted it to tell everyone that JC and Moses and others had been there. And the audience believed it, something as utterly ridiculous as "sorry folks, but Jesus will only talk to me if you can't see him". That story adds credibility, IMO, to RFM's assertion that it could have all been parlor tricks - and that he was crazy good at it and had a perfect audience.

Give em Hell, RFM!

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think JS told anyone about the visit from Christ, Moses, Elijah 1, and Elijah 2 at the time. I'll have to check, but I don't think that section is in the CoC D&C because it was added when people in Utah went through JS's papers and found the story. I don't think JS had really fleshed out what he wanted to teach about it.

JS was great at saying, "Remember that miraculous thing that happened 8 years ago," while everyone around him nodded, afraid to be deemed unworthy because they could not see the clothes.

[moksha]

These two episodes are being hailed as groundbreaking new concepts in understanding the translation process. Watch the magicians hat and forget about that stone. A good magician probably palmed the stone into his pocket so it wouldn't get in the way of the trick.

[Just This Guy]

RFM says that everything could have been done using very basic stage tricks. JS may not have been good enough to even palm the stone. He could have just left it in the hat to hold his note paper in place.

[Yobispo]

I thought RFM did a great job with this. It's a new angle, something we rarely get. And the BoM translation is the one thing that I've never seen a good explanation for.

One thing RFM didn't mention was the pulpit-curtain trick he did in Kirtland. Remember how he dropped a curtain around himself (and Sydney or Oliver, i forget) and then a few minutes later lifted it to tell everyone that JC and Moses and others had been there. And the audience believed it, something as utterly ridiculous as "sorry folks, but Jesus will only talk to me if you can't see him". That story adds credibility, IMO, to RFM's assertion that it could have all been parlor tricks - and that he was crazy good at it and had a perfect audience.

Give em Hell, RFM!

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think JS told anyone about the visit from Christ, Moses, Elijah 1, and Elijah 2 at the time. I'll have to check, but I don't think that section is in the CoC D&C because it was added when people in Utah went through JS's papers and found the story. I don't think JS had really fleshed out what he wanted to teach about it.

JS was great at saying, "Remember that miraculous thing that happened 8 years ago," while everyone around him nodded, afraid to be deemed unworthy because they could not see the clothes.

Blazer, you got my attention. Maybe I'm remembering the stories I was taught and not the real history, but now I have to dive in and find out!
Edit: that was quick - check out the header on section 110 - https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... g=eng#p7#7. That's where it comes from, now I have to find out the truth.

[Palerider]

A couple things I learned were with regard to the head in the hat:

1. The hat was in fact white, not black as normally depicted..........With the hat being white, it is translucent enough that someone can read something inside it. JSjr may have simply had notes stashed in the hat......

This is news to me. As also that it was a "top hat" or stove pipe. A white stove top hat sounds a great deal like a magician's prop. Where would Joseph have gotten such a thing? It would be totally useless as a practical piece of clothing on a farm, especially for someone in low economic circumstances.

How do we know this is the type of hat used? Where is the description?

[Palerider]

While looking for an actual description of Joseph's white top hat, I came across this pro-mormon article that just thoroughly makes me gag. These people will go to ANY length to make the square peg fit in the round hole.

This poor woman makes a huge leap of parallels between Joseph using the hat and Moses covering his face with "skins" and ancient BoM prophets covering their faces with skins in order to use the "interpreters".

The only problem is she's too dumb to realize that top hats were never made from beaver "skins"

They were only made from beaver FUR that had been felted. Yeesh!

And everyone commenting on her website is telling her how wonderful and insightful her research has been. Gag, cough, gag. It's JUST stupid!

She also uses this to show how natural it would be for Joseph to use this technique to receive revelation and translate the plates. Nothing odd about it whatsoever.

Don Bradley even comments that he's going to use her research in his book. Can't believe ANY so called scholar wouldn't do the research on how beaver top hats were really made first. Mind boggling......

https://www.millennialstar.org/the-beav ... he-plates/

https://motherbedford.blogspot.com/2013 ... m.html?m=1

[MalcolmVillager]

Consiglieri this was an instant classic. The ruse is so clear once you see it from the right (wrong) angle.

Nice work!

[moksha]

Can anyone remember the exact details of the walking on water trick, with some wooden planks beneath the water?

[Just This Guy]

Can anyone remember the exact details of the walking on water trick, with some wooden planks beneath the water?

Ask and ye shall receive...

http://www.truthandgrace.com/1901BDEagle0925.htm

Pure parlor tricks.

[Palerider]

Can anyone remember the exact details of the walking on water trick, with some wooden planks beneath the water?

I did find that most scholars (even Fawn Brodie) are skeptical that the walking on water trick is a true story. At least the newspaper article that printed it seems to be baseless.