If I could ask them one question . . . Come Follow Me, Lesson 23

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annotatedbom
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If I could ask them one question . . . Come Follow Me, Lesson 23

Post by annotatedbom » Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:31 am

For Come Follow Me, Lesson 23, Jun 8-14, 2020, Alma 8-12

If I wanted to encourage thought and try to understand devout believers better, I might ask:
Do you think the Book of Mormon helps with the problem of evil?

See the Things to consider for this lesson.

And, here’s a list of some other observations about this lesson’s reading.

Enjoy!
A-Bom

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moksha
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Re: If I could ask them one question . . . Come Follow Me, Lesson 23

Post by moksha » Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:19 am

I can't really think of anything to say right now, but I just realized that if I post something it will be post # 3100. :o


** Isn't that like a chocolate chip cookie occasion or something?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Hagoth
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Re: If I could ask them one question . . . Come Follow Me, Lesson 23

Post by Hagoth » Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:07 pm

If you believe in the Mormon God, as described by Joseph Smith and other prophets (and from which the church has been running away for the past few decades) you appear to believe in a being that is much less of a god than the Christian God. He is not a great infinite being who lives outside of time and space who created everything. He is one of many mortals who lived within space and time but have leveled-up to a higher material status. It might be better to think of him as a superhero rather than a god, or maybe an alien with advanced technology that seems magical to us.

With this limited kind of God it may not be possible to even ask about the problem of evil. Elohim is powerless one way or the other. He's just a guy like us but with more bling. The Book of Mormon makes me wonder if we are barking up the wrong tree altogether. It tells us that God, being so limited, is powerless to show too much mercy, even if he wanted to because, " mercy could not take effect except it should destroy the work of justice. Now the work of justice could not be destroyed; if so, God would cease to be God."

So who's REALLY calling the shots? I'm guessing... I dunno, Cthulhu?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

Reuben
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Re: If I could ask them one question . . . Come Follow Me, Lesson 23

Post by Reuben » Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:21 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:07 pm
With this limited kind of God it may not be possible to even ask about the problem of evil. Elohim is powerless one way or the other. He's just a guy like us but with more bling. The Book of Mormon makes me wonder if we are barking up the wrong tree altogether. It tells us that God, being so limited, is powerless to show too much mercy, even if he wanted to because, " mercy could not take effect except it should destroy the work of justice. Now the work of justice could not be destroyed; if so, God would cease to be God."

So who's REALLY calling the shots? I'm guessing... I dunno, Cthulhu?
No, see, it's eternal friggin' law. Sinning makes you dirty, and because the whole universe is divided into awesome clean places where some beings have superpowers and crappy dirty places like Earth, it's friggin' physically impossible to be in a clean place after you sin. It's like, the fifth fundamental force, and it can totally be derived from God's souped-up standard model of celestial physics.

Either that, or it's his dad calling the shots, whose shots are called by his own dad, and so on, unto the infinitieth generation.

Who started it all? Why, young man, it's turtles all the way down!
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

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blazerb
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Re: If I could ask them one question . . . Come Follow Me, Lesson 23

Post by blazerb » Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:36 pm

Reuben wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:21 pm
Hagoth wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:07 pm
With this limited kind of God it may not be possible to even ask about the problem of evil. Elohim is powerless one way or the other. He's just a guy like us but with more bling. The Book of Mormon makes me wonder if we are barking up the wrong tree altogether. It tells us that God, being so limited, is powerless to show too much mercy, even if he wanted to because, " mercy could not take effect except it should destroy the work of justice. Now the work of justice could not be destroyed; if so, God would cease to be God."

So who's REALLY calling the shots? I'm guessing... I dunno, Cthulhu?
No, see, it's eternal friggin' law. Sinning makes you dirty, and because the whole universe is divided into awesome clean places where some beings have superpowers and crappy dirty places like Earth, it's friggin' physically impossible to be in a clean place after you sin. It's like, the fifth fundamental force, and it can totally be derived from God's souped-up standard model of celestial physics.

Either that, or it's his dad calling the shots, whose shots are called by his own dad, and so on, unto the infinitieth generation.

Who started it all? Why, young man, it's turtles all the way down!
When I believed, I think I had some notion like this, that God was subject to some eternal law. How that law came about was never really examined. Mormon God is like the gods in the Percy Jackson series. He has great power, but He doesn't explain the existence of the universe or anything.

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Hagoth
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Re: If I could ask them one question . . . Come Follow Me, Lesson 23

Post by Hagoth » Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:30 pm

blazerb wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:36 pm
When I believed, I think I had some notion like this, that God was subject to some eternal law. How that law came about was never really examined. Mormon God is like the gods in the Percy Jackson series. He has great power, but He doesn't explain the existence of the universe or anything.
OK, get this. I eventually came to the conclusion that "one eternal round" is a secret code word for the underlying model of everything. The answer to the ultimate question of who started it all is irrelevant. God's father is a god whose father is a god... on and on until after billions of generations it turns out that... wait for it... Elohim is a remote descendant of himself! You can stop worrying about how it all got started because it is a closed loop.

Do they give a Nobel prize for theology?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Give It Time
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Re: If I could ask them one question . . . Come Follow Me, Lesson 23

Post by Give It Time » Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:44 pm

It's kind of late where I am and I'm answering this without having read the lesson or the discussion and my response may come off as random (not the poster). Since, I've disaffected, my idea of evil has taken a complete 180 and even at that, I am developing a bit of a yin/yang view of it that I actually consider a return of my compassion in a more developed form. Here is my answer, though.

In the Bible, Jesus was known to have associated with people who were considered evil, outcasts, the forgotten and "dregs" of society. Prior to the resurrected Jesus going to visit the Nephites on the American continent, the evil, the outcasts, the forgotten and "dregs" of society were destroyed. Book of Mormon Jesus is the complete and total opposite in personality as the New Testament Jesus.

I view Book of Mormon Jesus as evil.

To answer your question, no.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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