Thoughts on Romney and his March?

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moksha
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Thoughts on Romney and his March?

Post by moksha » Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:49 pm

I was really proud of Senator Mitt Romney marching together with evangelical Christians in support of Black Lives Matter. About time someone from the Republican ranks showed moral leadership on this issue. Justice cannot be solely a Democratic concern. Of course, this was met with insults by Trump. I think Mitt should wear any derision by Trump as a badge of honor.

President Nelson has also been supportive of Black Lives Matter in a recent presentation. Anyway, I am happy this issue is being addressed in a positive way by both Mitt and the Church.

What are your thoughts on this matter?
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2bizE
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Re: Thoughts on Romney and his March?

Post by 2bizE » Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:46 pm

It is a great thing to support all humans. This is a good thing for him.
~2bizE

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Hagoth
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Re: Thoughts on Romney and his March?

Post by Hagoth » Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:05 pm

It's awesome, so of course he'll take heat from conservative Christians and Trump supporters.
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Palerider
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Re: Thoughts on Romney and his March?

Post by Palerider » Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:06 am

Mitt's been around for a long time. I believe his father even marched with black leadership back in the 60's.

Commendable.

I just wonder where Mitt's courage was when he could have called out his church leaders before 1978, when they practiced blatant discrimination. Maybe just got in line like the rest of us?

Better late than never I suppose. But for me he comes off as a bit of a tin horn. I'd be much more impressed to see him turn to current LDS leadership and say, "It's time to truly apologize for past racism and dump the BofM 'curse of black skin' scriptures."

A bridge too far I suppose. He's still staying in line.
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1smartdodog
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Re: Thoughts on Romney and his March?

Post by 1smartdodog » Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:23 am

All lives matter.


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Palerider
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Re: Thoughts on Romney and his March?

Post by Palerider » Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:59 am

1smartdodog wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:23 am
All lives matter.


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+1...👍
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

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Not Buying It
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Re: Thoughts on Romney and his March?

Post by Not Buying It » Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:53 am

Sure all lives matter. Nobody every said they didn't. But you should know how snotty and condescending it sounds when that's your response to "black lives matter". "All lives matter" is seen by the black community as code for "white lives matter more". Because, geez, black people can't even point out their lives matter without white people getting all in a huff about how much they matter too? Whether it is intentional or not, ""all lives matter" feels dismissive to most black people I know. See below.
For the all lives matter folks.jpg
For the all lives matter folks.jpg (55.53 KiB) Viewed 580 times
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Re: Thoughts on Romney and his March?

Post by wtfluff » Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:16 am

THANK YOU NBI!
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

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Re: Thoughts on Romney and his March?

Post by 1smartdodog » Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:24 pm

Not Buying It wrote:Sure all lives matter. Nobody every said they didn't. But you should know how snotty and condescending it sounds when that's your response to "black lives matter". "All lives matter" is seen by the black community as code for "white lives matter more". Because, geez, black people can't even point out their lives matter without white people getting all in a huff about how much they matter too? Whether it is intentional or not, ""all lives matter" feels dismissive to most black people I know. See below.
For the all lives matter folks.jpg
I am not buying it. I really do believe all lives matter. I can not wrap my head around the notion that one is offensive and one is not. You can run around all you want and say black lives matter. I don’t care and i am not offended. But don’t get all worked up when someone says all lives matter. You automatically assume it is a negative statement, but it is not.




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Re: Thoughts on Romney and his March?

Post by wtfluff » Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:54 pm

1smartdodog wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:24 pm
You automatically assume it is a negative statement, but it is not.
Not negative, just tone-deaf.
BLM.jpg
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Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

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Not Buying It
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Re: Thoughts on Romney and his March?

Post by Not Buying It » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:24 am

1smartdodog wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:24 pm
Not Buying It wrote:Sure all lives matter. Nobody every said they didn't. But you should know how snotty and condescending it sounds when that's your response to "black lives matter". "All lives matter" is seen by the black community as code for "white lives matter more". Because, geez, black people can't even point out their lives matter without white people getting all in a huff about how much they matter too? Whether it is intentional or not, ""all lives matter" feels dismissive to most black people I know. See below. For the all lives matter folks.jpg
I am not buying it. I really do believe all lives matter. I can not wrap my head around the notion that one is offensive and one is not. You can run around all you want and say black lives matter. I don’t care and i am not offended. But don’t get all worked up when someone says all lives matter. You automatically assume it is a negative statement, but it is not.




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I'm just telling you how the phrase "all lives matter" makes a lot of our black brothers and sisters feel - none of them doubt all lives matter, but a lot of them feel like that phrase is used to minimize their experiences. Now, there are a couple of things a person can do with that knowledge - you can just ignore it and keep saying "all lives matter" in response to "black lives matter", but at best it makes a person seem kind of unempathetic and uncaring. A person can pretend it isn't true, but I assure you it is, and a lot of us left a religion that was all about pretending something is true that isn't, so that isn't consistent with what we are all about here. A person can keep saying "all lives matter" while perfectly aware that it makes our black friends feel like their concerns are being minimized, but I am not sure that speaks well of the person using the phrase. Whether through ignorance or malice, "all lives matter" is a poor - and hurtful - response to "black lives matter".

"I am drowning, I need a lifeguard!" "All people need lifeguards".
"My house is on fire, I need the Fire Department!" "All people need the Fire Department".
"My family is starving, I need food!" "All people need food".
"A cop is on my neck. I can't breathe! I need air!" "All people need air".

In each of these cases where a need is expressed, the response is factually correct and true. However, using it in that context only serves to minimize the very real and legitimate concern being expressed.

Black lives matter. You can say whatever you want in response, but you should be aware of what you are communicating to our black brothers and sisters when you do.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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Re: Thoughts on Romney and his March?

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:09 am

...
Last edited by FiveFingerMnemonic on Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Hagoth
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Re: Thoughts on Romney and his March?

Post by Hagoth » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:21 am

I'm sure you mean it with the absolute best intentions,1smartdog, but you gotta admit that phrase carries a lot of baggage these days, since it has become the rallying cry of alt-right and white supremacists counter-protesters. A confederate flag is just a piece of cloth with pretty colors on it but if you show up waving one at a Black Lives Matter protest you are sending a clear signal.

In other news, I wish I could go back to John Taylor's time and organize an All Wives Matter protest in front of his mansion. All of his wives mattered, but some much more than others.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

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moksha
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Re: Thoughts on Romney and his March?

Post by moksha » Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:51 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:21 am
In other news, I wish I could go back to John Taylor's time and organize an All Wives Matter protest in front of his mansion. All of his wives mattered, but some much more than others.
Do you remember last year when conservatives were pressing the slogan, Blue Lives Matter?

Perhaps later this year Trump and Cthulhu will be sloganeering with No Lives Matter.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
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Hagoth
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Re: Thoughts on Romney and his March?

Post by Hagoth » Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:20 pm

moksha wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:51 pm
Do you remember last year when conservatives were pressing the slogan, Blue Lives Matter?
Also true, and it shows that they do understand the meaning of Black Lives Matter in saying that Black Lives Matter JUST AS MUCH. Maybe those last three words need to be included to make the message completely unambiguous.
moksha wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:51 pm
Perhaps later this year Trump and Cthulhu will be sloganeering with No Lives Matter.
I think Chthulhu's purposes are the loftier of the two. Make R'lyeh Great Again!
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

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Re: Thoughts on Romney and his March?

Post by alas » Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:22 pm

moksha wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:51 pm
Hagoth wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:21 am
In other news, I wish I could go back to John Taylor's time and organize an All Wives Matter protest in front of his mansion. All of his wives mattered, but some much more than others.
Do you remember last year when conservatives were pressing the slogan, Blue Lives Matter?

Perhaps later this year Trump and Cthulhu will be sloganeering with No Lives Matter.
Trump sure has been acting like no lives matter. In fact, I almost wrote something above while people were discussing the “all lives matter” and said that not all lives seem to matter when we insist on reopening the economy. Granny’s and grandpa’s life doesn’t matter. Those with immunosuppressive diseases or on drugs that suppress their immune system, their lives don’t matter. The meat packing industry’s lives don’t matter. Black and Native American lives don’t matter. Only the damned economy matters. But then I decided that was a distraction from black lives matter, and I really do support that movement and not just for black lives, but everyone killed by trigger happy cops.

And blue lives matter too. I have a family member who was law enforcement and killed in the line of duty. But the world seems to care about blue lives, so we need to work on the black lives matter. Then we can move on to the many missing Native American women, and maybe decide that murder and kidnappings on the reservation are worth investigating.

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Hagoth
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Re: Thoughts on Romney and his March?

Post by Hagoth » Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:17 pm

America: Meat > People
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Red Ryder
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Re: Thoughts on Romney and his March?

Post by Red Ryder » Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:27 am

Image
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Hagoth
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Re: Thoughts on Romney and his March?

Post by Hagoth » Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:14 pm

As a result of discussion elsewhere about keeping NOM non-political, let's try to remember to start threads like this in the Coffee Shop from now on. Everyone is breathing politics 24/7 right now, whether they want to or not, so it isn't reasonable to expect people to just not talk about it at all. The Coffee Shop is the best place on the NOM board for it. I would move this thread there but I wasn't able to figure out how to move an entire thread without splitting it or combining with another thread. Maybe one of the smarter moderators will come to my rescue.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Give It Time
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Re: Thoughts on Romney and his March?

Post by Give It Time » Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:33 pm

alas wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:22 pm
moksha wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:51 pm
Hagoth wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:21 am
In other news, I wish I could go back to John Taylor's time and organize an All Wives Matter protest in front of his mansion. All of his wives mattered, but some much more than others.
Do you remember last year when conservatives were pressing the slogan, Blue Lives Matter?

Perhaps later this year Trump and Cthulhu will be sloganeering with No Lives Matter.
Trump sure has been acting like no lives matter. In fact, I almost wrote something above while people were discussing the “all lives matter” and said that not all lives seem to matter when we insist on reopening the economy. Granny’s and grandpa’s life doesn’t matter. Those with immunosuppressive diseases or on drugs that suppress their immune system, their lives don’t matter. The meat packing industry’s lives don’t matter. Black and Native American lives don’t matter. Only the damned economy matters. But then I decided that was a distraction from black lives matter, and I really do support that movement and not just for black lives, but everyone killed by trigger happy cops.

And blue lives matter too. I have a family member who was law enforcement and killed in the line of duty. But the world seems to care about blue lives, so we need to work on the black lives matter. Then we can move on to the many missing Native American women, and maybe decide that murder and kidnappings on the reservation are worth investigating.
^^^This. I have been feeling exactly this.^^^
Red Ryder wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:27 am
Image
This one's good, too.

Loved the march. I've heard he has a black grandson, so his participation is probably proud grandpa support and genuine.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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