Grant Palmer's non-believing GA revealed

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Hagoth
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Grant Palmer's non-believing GA revealed

Post by Hagoth » Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:47 am

This is the guy who claimed apostles get a $1 Million signing bonus.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/ ... clnk&gl=us

This is a cached link. The word is that Dehlin had to take it down immediately under cease and desist orders accompanying potential lawsuits. Struck a nerve for sure.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

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blazerb
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Re: Grant Palmer's non-believing GA revealed

Post by blazerb » Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:56 am

Interesting. A lawsuit would have been fascinating. Probably no one would have been willing to go on record.

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Hagoth
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Re: Grant Palmer's non-believing GA revealed

Post by Hagoth » Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:14 am

Somebody go up on the roof and switch on the RFM bat signal.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Red Ryder
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Re: Grant Palmer's non-believing GA revealed

Post by Red Ryder » Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:53 am

Here’s another angle:
Edit: looks like that’s not the angle I thought was posted. Looks like what I read earlier was also taken down.
Wowza. Things got pretty intense on the Mormon Stories Facebook page. Enzio’s daughter got on there threatening to sue. The post has since been deleted.
https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/commen ... urce=share

JD doxxing this guy after he dies...not cool!
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felixfabulous
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Re: Grant Palmer's non-believing GA revealed

Post by felixfabulous » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:07 am

For some reason,I've found this whole thing fascinating ever since Grant Palmer talked about this mysterious GA and looked at charts, etc. to try to figure out who it was. My research was pretty bad because Busche never came on my radar.

I have a friend who was in a ward with the Busches growing up and said everyone loved them, kind, caring and genuine people who had a little different take on the gospel and the Church, which is part of what people loved. That seems to be in line with them potentially being nuanced believers at the beginning and non-believers at the end. Based on the information presented, I believe that the Busches were likely non-believers and met with Grant Palmer. I think that the information about the $1M signing bonus and the apostles not believing the truth claims is pretty sensational. I'm not saying that isn't true, but it could have been Busche relaying interesting rumors he'd heard or speculating/venting in what he thought was a private conversation. In his position, he probably didn't feel like he could open up to many people. I take those sensational aspects with a little bit of a grain of salt.

As fascinating as this is to me, I agree that doxing him at his death was probably not the right move. I'm sure it was very upsetting to the family, putting them in the limelight and in the awkward position of having to answer questions about it they wanted to keep private or being blindsided by information that may have been upsetting. His widow is also in the awkward position of potentially losing her standing in the ward community and in her family with something she thought was confidential and private.

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wtfluff
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Re: Grant Palmer's non-believing GA revealed

Post by wtfluff » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:45 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:53 am
JD doxxing this guy after he dies...not cool!
I'm so socially inept that I hadn't even thought about it this way.

Yep, definitely too soon.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

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Ghost
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Re: Grant Palmer's non-believing GA revealed

Post by Ghost » Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:10 pm

[Redacted] was my favorite of the speakers that I heard from as a missionary. I still remember some of the things he said because they were a little different from what I was accustomed to hearing and in some cases refreshingly less vague (but still entirely faithful).

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Re: Grant Palmer's non-believing GA revealed

Post by Reuben » Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:13 pm

You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

dogbite
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Re: Grant Palmer's non-believing GA revealed

Post by dogbite » Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:42 pm

Fun to know who. Just more failure of discernment and likely own-goal from second annointing as with Mattson and Phillips.

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Just This Guy
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Re: Grant Palmer's non-believing GA revealed

Post by Just This Guy » Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:57 pm

NO clue who this guy is. Ah... Blissful ignorance.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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Re: Grant Palmer's non-believing GA revealed

Post by Reuben » Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:27 pm

dogbite wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:42 pm
Fun to know who. Just more failure of discernment and likely own-goal from second annointing as with Mattson and Phillips.
Interesting that they're all from Europe. If this is actually a trend, I would guess it comes from a mixture of secularized culture and having a smaller pool to draw fundamentalists from.
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

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Hagoth
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Re: Grant Palmer's non-believing GA revealed

Post by Hagoth » Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:58 pm

Someone who says he interviewed him and concluded that either Palmer did a great deal of embellishing or that Busche had become senile and couldn't remember much of what they talked about:

https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comment ... n/dqz3drc/

It's possible that Busche woke up to the fact that he had been spreading misinformation and that caused his personal crisis:
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... its_satan/
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Just This Guy
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Re: Grant Palmer's non-believing GA revealed

Post by Just This Guy » Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:14 am

Hagoth wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:58 pm
Someone who says he interviewed him and concluded that either Palmer did a great deal of embellishing or that Busche had become senile and couldn't remember much of what they talked about:

https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comment ... n/dqz3drc/

It's possible that Busche woke up to the fact that he had been spreading misinformation and that caused his personal crisis:
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... its_satan/


Another possible explanation is that he got his pedigree read to him by the higher ups for not towing the company line hard enough and taught him to stop being honest about his real thoughts.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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Hagoth
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Re: Grant Palmer's non-believing GA revealed

Post by Hagoth » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:25 am

Just This Guy wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:14 am
Another possible explanation is that he got his pedigree read to him by the higher ups for not towing the company line hard enough and taught him to stop being honest about his real thoughts.
"Brother Busche, is this your signature on the NDA titled Declaration of Church-Brokedness and Oath of Conformity?" I will now administer the injection and eye-clips and turn my time over to this army of Kirton and McConkie attorneys.

Image
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Hagoth
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Re: Grant Palmer's non-believing GA revealed

Post by Hagoth » Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:10 pm

Image
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Not Buying It
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Re: Grant Palmer's non-believing GA revealed

Post by Not Buying It » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:14 am

John Dehlin should have had way more compassion and empathy for a grieving family. But no, he had to get the scoop, and now we all know who the alleged GA was. The fellow has only been dead a few weeks, I can only imagine how it made his family feel. There are few accusations in the Mormon world more devastating than disloyalty to the Church, and that is what his family is dealing with now.

I have always thought John Dehin is an attention hound. Maybe I'm being unfair, but my take is that he was after the attention he craves and he saw this as a good way of getting it. The impact on a grieving family never crossed his mind. However, possible legal ramifications made him take notice, and his statement "out of respect for his family's concerns about his widow" rings false when you know there were threats of litigation. Don't give yourself so much credit there Mr. Dehlin.

As to the story itself - I am skeptical. Would the GA in question really be privy to private conversations among apostles about how they know the foundational claims of the Church are false? Doubtful. Very doubtful. A secret that explosive would not be discussed in a manner we would ever hear about it - if any such conversations took place I can guarantee someone at this GA's level would never hear them. People are lousy at keeping secrets, if the apostles really did discuss such things in settings where their underlings could hear them, we would have heard whispers about this a long time ago. I'm not impugning Grant Palmer, but I think there are some problems with this particular claim.

"Silence is complicity in the carnage". Sure, but what exactly did revealing the GAs name achieve? Did it really make Grant Palmer's claims any more credible? So we have a name now, big deal. Doesn't lend any veracity whatsoever to these claims. Elder Hartman Rector Jr. once told me that Elder Mark E. Peterson liked to dress in women's underwear, but only women's garments because he felt anything else would be too worldly. There, you have a claim, you have a name, but I hope like hell you don't actually believe it.

I think it is tempting to believe this claim mostly because we want to believe it so bad. But it has issues.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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2bizE
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Re: Grant Palmer's non-believing GA revealed

Post by 2bizE » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:30 am

1) I don’t like how JD handles this. As a psychology professional, he should have been more sensitive.
2) Who are the 4 sources? In the few months before Grant Palmer’s death, Grant was on Mormon Stories a few times. He always refused to give JD the name of the GA.
3) In the statements from Grand himself, he said he went to the GAs home and the GA came to his home to meet. Doesn’t that GA live in Europe?
~2bizE

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Red Ryder
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Re: Grant Palmer's non-believing GA revealed

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:33 am

Ex-mormonism is silly.

So to make sure I understand all this.

A guy who spent his whole life teaching for the church writes a book, then publishes it after he retires and becomes pseudo famous only to claim an anonymous guy (who also spent his life working for the church) gets paid $1M. The exmo crowd believes the hype, spreads the rumors, and jeers and supports another guy who left an alleged lucrative job with Microsoft in order to develop a podcast, corner the exmo podcast market and attempt to make money, while attending psychology school so he and his wife can then pick up the fragile pieces of lives impacted by the alleged silence of former GA from Europe nobody has ever heard of before.

Did I miss anything?
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

Reuben
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Re: Grant Palmer's non-believing GA revealed

Post by Reuben » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:38 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:33 am
Ex-mormonism is silly.

So to make sure I understand all this.

A guy who spent his whole life teaching for the church writes a book, then publishes it after he retires and becomes pseudo famous only to claim an anonymous guy (who also spent his life working for the church) gets paid $1M. The exmo crowd believes the hype, spreads the rumors, and jeers and supports another guy who left an alleged lucrative job with Microsoft in order to develop a podcast, corner the exmo podcast market and attempt to make money, while attending psychology school so he and his wife can then pick up the fragile pieces of lives impacted by the alleged silence of former GA from Europe nobody has ever heard of before.

Did I miss anything?
Yes. Mark E Peterson used to dress in women's garments.
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

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Linked
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Re: Grant Palmer's non-believing GA revealed

Post by Linked » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:27 pm

2bizE wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:30 am
1) I don’t like how JD handles this. As a psychology professional, he should have been more sensitive.
2) Who are the 4 sources? In the few months before Grant Palmer’s death, Grant was on Mormon Stories a few times. He always refused to give JD the name of the GA.
3) In the statements from Grand himself, he said he went to the GAs home and the GA came to his home to meet. Doesn’t that GA live in Europe?
For number 3, according to Wikipedia* this GA died in Utah.

*The source of all truth
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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