NOM

Here is my almost three-hour interview with Professor Brian Hauglid.

https://radiofreemormon.org/2020/07/rad ... interview/

We cover a lot of ground, and get into some very interesting behind-the-scenes stories!

I really think you are going to like this one!

RFM

I am currently listening to this podcast at minute 59. Consiglieri is an excellent interviewer.

I'm about half way through. This is really good. Thanks Consig!

I’ve listened to about half so far and it is really good. This is one I wish I could get my DW to listen to. She is very beholden to intellectual Mormons so she would either need to critically think about his statements, or, default to the devil must have got to him. Either way, his credentials would give him credibility in her eyes. Can’t wait to finish.

This sounds amazing. Brian Hauglid's history with apologetics and academic research is extensive.

Two Prime Issues at the 2-hour mark of this Podcast:

1. Honesty is the best policy for the long term sake of everyone concerned with the Church.

2. Dishonesty is the best policy in order to retain members and make the job of apologists easier by not having to explain so much.

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Finished this podcast and realized this was a five-alarm must view at Apologist Central. I suspect there was a clamoring as to which one got to report Brian Hauglid to the Inquisition Committee. Did they go with seniority or expertise in Egyptology?

I wonder how many scholars are apostates-in-the-closet. I am sure that most of those working in church history and scripture for the church have subscriptions to Dialogue. If they don't, they are regularly getting articles from the library. The leadership is happy to villainize the intellectuals, but they know they need them. Heck, they even give them permission to be honest with their professional colleagues and hide the truth in a variety of ways from the common member.

I don't know where Brother Hauglid is on his faith journey. It sounds like he is happy going to church and enjoying the fellowship without necessarily believing everything. I wonder if the Q15 know how precarious the church activity of people like him is.

Finally, I find it funny when The Interpreter publishes articles critical of the scholars, especially when those scholars are being paid by the church to do what the church wants them to do. The church appears to me to be a house divided against itself.

:Holy cow!!! I just got to the big reveals starting around 1:30. This interview is THE most important commentary on the Book of Abraham, coming from the original author of the Gospel Topics essay.

blazerb wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:33 am

I wonder if the Q15 know how precarious the church activity of people like him is.

Finally, I find it funny when The Interpreter publishes articles critical of the scholars, especially when those scholars are being paid by the church to do what the church wants them to do. The church appears to me to be a house divided against itself.

Maybe the Q15 are jealous of them because the Q15 don't believe it, either.

Hauglid, just by being honest and transparent, makes it obvious how dishonest, manipulative, and petty people like Gee and Petersen have been.

Gee believes facts are grenades that will hurt people's testimonies. OK. Apparently that justifies him in resorting to misdirection, subterfuge and the omission of facts. I'm sure he is correct that the ungarnished truth can, and I would argue that it should, make faithful people rethink their unquestioning trust and devotion toward authority figures who would support the hiding of such things. What he needs to realize is that performing these cup-and-ball tricks for thoughtful people who really care about the truth, and who are going to take the time and effort to dig below the surface, might be better compared to dambuster bombs. Those who once took this scholarship seriously and then figured out what's really going on tend to react just as you would expect them to in any other situation where they learn they have been played like a cheap violin.

Apologists who defend the church over the truth turn out to be their own worst enemies.

Hagoth wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:09 pm

Hauglid, just by being honest and transparent, makes it obvious how dishonest, manipulative, and petty people like Gee and Petersen have been.

Gee believes facts are grenades that will hurt people's testimonies. OK. Apparently that justifies him in resorting to misdirection, subterfuge and the omission of facts. I'm sure he is correct that the ungarnished truth can, and I would argue that it should, make faithful people rethink their unquestioning trust and devotion toward authority figures who would support the hiding of such things.

And I think it's now safe to assume that Gee meant Hauglid as one of the chief launchers of the grenades.

Wow, what a great interview, and it will require a second listen. The part I absolutely loved was that Brian went into the Gee/Interpreter hit piece on his/Jensen's volume of the JS papers. And the revelation that the church paid Gee for the hit piece, and then called him on the carpet for said hit piece! Priceless!

What a great interview. Going to book off some time to listen to this again, a little more carefully next time. Hopefully I'll have more to say.

Great interview, consiglieri!

My head is still spinning a bit about how significant this interview was. Thanks you Consiglieri and thank YOU Brian Hauglid for your honesty and transparency!

Simon Southerton has criticized Hauglid for waiting until he retired to come forth with this stuff, but I certainly don't fault him. Dan Peterson and other former colleagues are already on the attack to get his church standing reconsidered and to try to disrupt his pension. I can't imagine how they might have damaged him if he had not waited until he was in the clear. The fact that he couldn't talk about it until post-retirement is just further testimony of the depth of the swamp in which he had been treading water.

Mormorrisey wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:03 pm

Wow, what a great interview, and it will require a second listen. The part I absolutely loved was that Brian went into the Gee/Interpreter hit piece on his/Jensen's volume of the JS papers. And the revelation that the church paid Gee for the hit piece, and then called him on the carpet for said hit piece! Priceless!

The leadership does not have a consistent plan for dealing with scholars. I am sure there are those who want to shut down the whole JS Papers enterprise and those who think transparency is the way to go. Some would probably like Patrick Mason and the Givens to shut up. Others are sure that their approach is needed. I don't think any one person exercises much control at the COB. Otherwise, there wouldn't be this split personality.

Anyway, I think that's how you get Gee's payment for attacking and his punishment for doing what he was paid to do. He can commiserate with Dan Peterson about how fast things can change. Actually, if I were Gee or Muhlestein, I'd be terrified. Their careers depend on staying in the good graces of the church. If the leadership cuts them off, they have no professional reputation to fall back on at this point. With the inconsistency from church leadership, they have to be nimble not to end up on the street.

Hagoth wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:22 pm

My head is still spinning a bit about how significant this interview was. Thanks you Consiglieri and thank YOU Brian Hauglid for your honesty and transparency!

Simon Southerton has criticized Hauglid for waiting until he retired to come forth with this stuff, but I certainly don't fault him. Dan Peterson and other former colleagues are already on the attack to get his church standing reconsidered and to try to disrupt his pension. I can't imagine how they might have damaged him if he had not waited until he was in the clear. The fact that he couldn't talk about it until post-retirement is just further testimony of the depth of the swamp in which he had been treading water.

By their fruits ye shall know them. Apparently this is how apologists leave the ninety and nine to go punish the one.

Honestly, I'm a bit stunned after listening. Like other's have mentioned: I'm going to have to listen to this one multiple times to take it all in.

And also as others have mentioned: Wow... Basically an almost life-long CES employee "coming out" as a heretic. Mr Hauglid, if you're reading (or Consig, let him know. Thank you for your integrity and honesty. There are likely more like you who do not have the courage to speak their truth the way you have. Thank You! (Again.)

wtfluff wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:18 pm

And also as others have mentioned: Wow... Basically an almost life-long CES employee "coming out" as a heretic. Mr Hauglid, if you're reading (or Consig, let him know. Thank you for your integrity and honesty. There are likely more like you who do not have the courage to speak their truth the way you have. Thank You! (Again.)

Hear! Hear! Thank you, Professor Hauglid!

PS - That episode truly was a great aphrodisiac! Looking forward to the next dose from RFM.

græy wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:10 am

That episode truly was a great aphrodisiac!

I wondered if Professor Hauglid may have been searching for the words analgesic, or antipyretic, or even antiemetic, but I am glad RFM talked him into keeping aphrodisiac.

You should run these through a speech to text algorithm so we can read and reference content quickly and easily. Android has a number of free ones and I bet other platforms do to.

I'm about 2 hours into it. The surprising part to me is Brian being open about the process for writing the BoA essay. Has anyone ever talked this candidly about the creation of any of the essays before?