The Great Mysteries

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Hagoth
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The Great Mysteries

Post by Hagoth » Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:44 pm

I've been thinking about the great mysteries that neither religion nor science has (yet) been able to fully answer. Actually, religion tries to answer all of them by saying "God did it," but I'm ruling out anything that can be sufficiently parried with "at least some guy or some old book says God did it." Please help me with my list. Or provide answers if you got 'em.

Here's what I have so far:

-Why was the universe once compressed in a space the size of an atom and what made it expand into all of THIS?

-What is the universe made of?

-Why does the universe appear to be well tuned for life as we know it?

-How did proteins first start replicating themselves?

-How did primitive protein replication advance to RNA/DNA mechanics?

-How did the first cell come about?

-How did cells first come to reproduce by mitosis?

-How/why did sexual reproduction begin?

-How did multicellular life begin?

-How/why did cell differentiation in multicellular organisms begin?

-Is consciousness purely a chemical phenomenon contained entirely within the brain?

-Why did it take so long for them to start making blue M&Ms?

-Does the Pope sh*t in the woods?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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wtfluff
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Re: The Great Mysteries

Post by wtfluff » Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:03 pm

Of course I am going to pop off with an instant knee-jerk reaction, then maybe I'll think of something somewhat intelligent later.


First, I'm going to take exception to this one.
Hagoth wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:44 pm
-Why does the universe appear to be well tuned for life as we know it?
I think the universe is basically trying to randomly kill us, and we're just extremely lucky to exist at all.


And the first great mystery that came to mind for me is:

-What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

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moksha
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Re: The Great Mysteries

Post by moksha » Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:31 pm

How/why did sexual reproduction begin?
After a while, some of those cells took on curvaceous shapes and started to undulate their flagella enticingly. How could another membrane encased cell resist? This is a family board, so just imagine some fireworks. ;)
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Hagoth
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Re: The Great Mysteries

Post by Hagoth » Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:59 am

wtfluff wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:03 pm
I think the universe is basically trying to randomly kill us, and we're just extremely lucky to exist at all.
Great answer. Some people will say there are infinite parallel universes, so one of them has to be right. I am inclined to say that the nature of physics will lead to life if given the right circumstances. That opens the door to the bigger question of why are the property of physics balanced the way they are in the universe, and round and round we go. Richard Dawkins suggests that it's like a typewriter. A typewriter just happens to come with all of the correct characters for writing a sentence and, by its nature couldn't be any different. Maybe I'm missing his point, but that makes you want to ask who designed the typewriter, and round we go again. And he doesn't even mention the monkeys.
wtfluff wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:03 pm
-What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?
What, an African swallow?

42.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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nibbler
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Re: The Great Mysteries

Post by nibbler » Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:47 am

A snake with legs gave a naked woman some fruit so she'd make some clothes out of leaves then the snake got in trouble and its legs fell off.

Next question.

(edit: this was the answer to the question about the blue m&ms)
We see things not as they are, but as we are ourselves. - H.M. Tomlinson

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wtfluff
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Re: The Great Mysteries

Post by wtfluff » Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:40 am

Hagoth wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:59 am
42.
nibbler wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:47 am
A snake with legs gave a naked woman some fruit so she'd make some clothes out of leaves then the snake got in trouble and its legs fell off.
Now, now!

Y'all need to slow down with the "Great Answers."

We're jut getting started with the Great Mysteries.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

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Ghost
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Re: The Great Mysteries

Post by Ghost » Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:05 am

My two favorite questions:
  • When you look at the sky, does space go on forever? Any possible answer is hard to even think about.
  • Why is there anything instead of nothing?
Citing God as an explanation for complexity is fine, but it doesn't answer the question at all. All you're doing is introducing something even MORE complex that then needs to be explained as well. One Mormon answer is an infinite regression of gods, but that's just like the space thing.

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Hagoth
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Re: The Great Mysteries

Post by Hagoth » Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:17 pm

Ghost wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:05 am
One Mormon answer is an infinite regression of gods, but that's just like the space thing.
It's the snake eating its own tail. I'm my own grandpa.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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RubinHighlander
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Re: The Great Mysteries

Post by RubinHighlander » Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:38 pm

I'm still trying to get used to the idea that I'm the joke (sapiens) of all this "existence" that came out of some pre-cosmic ejaculation of energy, expansion, cooling, particles, stars, death of stars then us.

Are realities always so complex? What if the great expansion had slightly different mathematical physical properties,a slightly different periodic table? Temperatures a bit higher or lower, no decaying protons; what if entropy is not a common property of other realities? Without a Rick portal gun we will probably never know. And who is to say that the minute you step out of this reality into another one, you might instantly vaporize because the conditions are different and you are anti-matter in that other reality. How do you dial in realities in the multi-verse (with your portal gun) that are only slightly off from ours or the same? Worse, you may destroy that other reality catastrophically with your mere appearance.

I love the Carl Sagan analogy of the 2D and 3D worlds where the flat square get's picked up on the surface of the table and can see his world from 'above', which never existed for him before. Our little ape brains (and the rest of us) might crash and burn if you put them in the 4th dimension.

This whole thing, this reality, is just so Fing weird! How can it not be a joke? I mean, if you can imagine yourself up on the moon or space station, looking back at our little blue speck, thinking about all the madness sapiens have created, especially this new silicon based digital world...WTF? Even if it's a simulation you are back to the gods/masters of it all and who made their reality. I don't think it can really ever make complete sense to an ape brain, which is why I'm convinced we are the joke because we are stuck in these meat bags in this conundrum. It's why so many are so driven to just fill in the gaps, throw up their hands and just have someone else tell them how it is. It can be pretty painful to try and unravel it otherwise.
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
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Corsair
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Re: The Great Mysteries

Post by Corsair » Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:46 pm

moksha wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:31 pm
How/why did sexual reproduction begin?
After a while, some of those cells took on curvaceous shapes and started to undulate their flagella enticingly. How could another membrane encased cell resist? This is a family board, so just imagine some fireworks. ;)
The ghosts of Mark E. Peterson and Spencer Kimball are appalled at your evolutionary theory.

Meanwhile, Hagoth's questions are excellent and some of them have better answers than others. I will openly say that I don't really, conclusively know on most of these, but there are a few reasonable attempts at answers.
Hagoth wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:44 pm
-Why was the universe once compressed in a space the size of an atom and what made it expand into all of THIS?

-What is the universe made of?
A Universe from Nothing by Lawrence Krauss is a good, one hour overview of why and how there is something rather than nothing. This is hardly the final word on the matter, but at least they are trying to make some rigorous attempts at the mechanisms of how this might have come about.

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Hagoth
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Re: The Great Mysteries

Post by Hagoth » Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:32 pm

Corsair wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:46 pm
A Universe from Nothing by Lawrence Krauss is a good, one hour overview of why and how there is something rather than nothing.
That was excellent. Thank you for the link!
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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w2mz
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Re: The Great Mysteries

Post by w2mz » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:50 pm

A Universe from Nothing by Lawrence Krauss

I agree with Hagoth, this was very interesting. Thanks for the link. I listened this morning while I went for a drive up to snowbasin by myself. Fascinating. Really got me thinking.

When I got home my TBM DW wanted to watch Ephriam’s Rescue to celebrate the pioneers and it was such a juxtaposition to what I had just listened to. I mean don’t get me wrong, what those two handcart companies went through truly demonstrates the resolve and will of the human species to survive, but I just can’t fathom an ancient bearded polygamist in the sky summarily torturing his children.

I much prefer the universe from nothing.
The church has engineered your eternal family into a commodity that can be purchased with an annual fee. The fact that full tithing payment is a requirement for saving ordinances is the biggest red flag imaginable. Hagoth

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w2mz
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Re: The Great Mysteries

Post by w2mz » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:50 pm

Duplicate post.
The church has engineered your eternal family into a commodity that can be purchased with an annual fee. The fact that full tithing payment is a requirement for saving ordinances is the biggest red flag imaginable. Hagoth

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Hagoth
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Re: The Great Mysteries

Post by Hagoth » Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:37 am

w2mz wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:50 pm
When I got home my TBM DW wanted to watch Ephriam’s Rescue to celebrate the pioneers and it was such a juxtaposition to what I had just listened to.
If an entire universe can appear out of nothing then why not a pie? (oops, different movie).
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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