Haley Wilson Lemmon and the Adam Clarke Commentary

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Mormorrisey
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Haley Wilson Lemmon and the Adam Clarke Commentary

Post by Mormorrisey » Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:01 am

So in my younger days, while I was getting my history degree, I also minored in religious studies. I have a great love for scriptural/textual criticism, and I thoroughly enjoyed my classes on these subjects, even if they challenged my Mormon views on the Bible (at the time). So it was with great anticipation that I wanted to hear/read more about Lemmon's and Wayment's paper about the JST Translation and Adam Clarke's Commentary - and so I was excited that she appeared on Mormon Stories, and it went up last night:

https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast/h ... on-lemmon/

I have since learned that she appeared on Bill Reel's podcast a couple of years ago, so I'll have to listen to that one as well. But for anyone else interested in textual criticism and the JST/Clarke's commentary furor, this is a must listen. The only thing I knew about Clarke's commentary before this is that he appeared a great deal in Talmage's Jesus the Christ, and that's about it. But I'm shocked that it took until a few years ago to figure out how much Joseph "borrowed" from Clarke in the JST. And I'm very glad that John spent over an hour on the actual paper that Haley and Thomas Wayment wrote, rather than other things in the interview. I thoroughly enjoyed this episode.

My one immediate takeaway from Haley's interview, that I already kind of knew, is that Joseph didn't really have an original thought, theological or otherwise, but liberally borrowed from the milieu he was surrounded in. And I'm also really glad that Haley is very nuanced about that particular process. I think she explains well that 19th century people did not have the same scruples as to plagiarism that we moderns have, so she's convinced it wasn't as malicious as critics would have it explained. By the same token, though, I think she's clear that the church and its members need to re-evaluate if Joseph's theology is truly unique and "from God," or if he's like every other religious leader in the early 19th century. That they simply just built on what came before, like a good Protestant, rather than a "restorationist." This is very critical to the truth claims of Mormonism; and why, I'm starting to be convinced, why the re-brand of the church is so significant.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Haley Wilson Lemmon and the Adam Clarke Commentary

Post by Mormorrisey » Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:12 am

How stupid am I? Apparently, very stupid. Bill Reel's interview with Haley from two years ago was discussed in this forum in detail, and I seemed to have just glossed over it. Now I'm wondering what I was doing that either made me too busy or too distracted to focus on this. AND I EVEN COMMENTED ON THE THREAD, WITHOUT ACTUALLY LISTENING TO THE INTERVIEW THAT I WOULD HAVE BEEN TOTALLY INTERESTED IN.

I'll see myself out.

https://newordermormon.net/viewtopic.php?t=3052
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: Haley Wilson Lemmon and the Adam Clarke Commentary

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:15 am

I'm curious if the main paper ever got published at the U of Utah as they indicated in the original teaser article.

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Haley Wilson Lemmon and the Adam Clarke Commentary

Post by Mormorrisey » Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:19 am

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:15 am
I'm curious if the main paper ever got published at the U of Utah as they indicated in the original teaser article.
Yep, it did. In February of this year - in a book edited by Brian Hauglid, of all people!

https://www.amazon.ca/Producing-Ancient ... oks&sr=1-1
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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jfro18
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Re: Haley Wilson Lemmon and the Adam Clarke Commentary

Post by jfro18 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:06 am

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:15 am
I'm curious if the main paper ever got published at the U of Utah as they indicated in the original teaser article.
It did and there are some comments about the article now that it is published in a thread on the MD board @ http://www.mormondiscussions.com/viewto ... =1&t=52737

I need to listen to the Dehlin interview today - I listened to the Reel one two years ago but I thought she said she had to hold back a little until it was published, so perhaps that's why John did his interview with her now.

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Haley Wilson Lemmon and the Adam Clarke Commentary

Post by Mormorrisey » Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:53 am

jfro18 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:06 am
FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:15 am
I'm curious if the main paper ever got published at the U of Utah as they indicated in the original teaser article.
It did and there are some comments about the article now that it is published in a thread on the MD board @ http://www.mormondiscussions.com/viewto ... =1&t=52737

I need to listen to the Dehlin interview today - I listened to the Reel one two years ago but I thought she said she had to hold back a little until it was published, so perhaps that's why John did his interview with her now.
I think I need to spend a little more time on the MD & D board - a great little discussion on the paper. Thanks for providing the link, jfro. And the publication date of the book is indeed in February, but it's only been available for a couple of weeks, apparently.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: Haley Wilson Lemmon and the Adam Clarke Commentary

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:13 am

jfro18 wrote:
FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:15 am
I'm curious if the main paper ever got published at the U of Utah as they indicated in the original teaser article.
It did and there are some comments about the article now that it is published in a thread on the MD board @ http://www.mormondiscussions.com/viewto ... =1&t=52737

I need to listen to the Dehlin interview today - I listened to the Reel one two years ago but I thought she said she had to hold back a little until it was published, so perhaps that's why John did his interview with her now.
Thanks for sharing the link to the discussion. I learned a new term "bricoleur". Image

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Red Ryder
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Re: Haley Wilson Lemmon and the Adam Clarke Commentary

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:34 am

I read through her AMA on reddit she did awhile back and found it funny she was bored in a Sunday School and was poking around when she stumbled across the similarities.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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