The temple endowment ceremony is changing.... again...

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jfro18
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The temple endowment ceremony is changing.... again...

Post by jfro18 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:18 am

I don't know if this is to deal with covid or if it was in the works (I would imagine it has to do with the handshakes?), but I guess we'll have to find one when people go through it...

https://www.thechurchnews.com/temples/2 ... -19-189240

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Mormorrisey
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Re: The temple endowment ceremony is changing.... again...

Post by Mormorrisey » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:22 am

jfro18 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:18 am
I don't know if this is to deal with covid or if it was in the works (I would imagine it has to do with the handshakes?), but I guess we'll have to find one when people go through it...

https://www.thechurchnews.com/temples/2 ... -19-189240
I would expect you are right, that they are changing the physical contact part. But I guess I'll be the one of the lucky few (chosen ones?) who gets to see it. I will r & r.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
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jfro18
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Re: The temple endowment ceremony is changing.... again...

Post by jfro18 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:27 am

Can we start a rumor that the Temple garments are more likely to carry COVID and thus they need to be discontinued?

If they got rid of garments it would make the lives of those in a mixed faith marriage so much better, not to mention those dealing with a massive heat wave as we are right now...

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Hagoth
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Re: The temple endowment ceremony is changing.... again...

Post by Hagoth » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:31 am

jfro18 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:27 am
If they got rid of garments it would make the lives of those in a mixed faith marriage so much better...
Which is reason enough for them to NOT change it.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

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Hagoth
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Re: The temple endowment ceremony is changing.... again...

Post by Hagoth » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:33 am

Mormorrisey wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:22 am
I will r & r.
Thank you. This will be the first set of changes I will be sitting out.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Not Buying It
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Re: The temple endowment ceremony is changing.... again...

Post by Not Buying It » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:47 am

They've been quietly trying to get rid of some of the weirder parts of Mormonism for some time now. I would be really surprised if along with limiting physical contact they don't slip in some other things that will make the endowment a little less weird.

What will the changes be? Don't know, don't care. Change it all you want, I'm never going back.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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Red Ryder
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Re: The temple endowment ceremony is changing.... again...

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:03 am

Probably no more handshakes.

Now you just extend your hand and pretend to receive it while your eyes are closed. :lol:
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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jfro18
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Re: The temple endowment ceremony is changing.... again...

Post by jfro18 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:07 am

I am assuming that the assumption is that once the pandemic clears out they would make "adjustments" to put the handshakes back in, but I have to wonder if this is a blessing in disguise for the church, knowing that the signs/tokens are Masonic and always having to deal with that problem in the temple.

When I went through I found it horribly weird, and I wonder if they will use this opportunity to water it down further to keep members going and not feeling like they just had their spirit violated as I did my first time.

They must have found a way to convey the signs/tokens without handshakes to reopen the temple without contact (assuming that's the reason), so if they found something that replaces it well... why would you ever go back to Masonic symbolism again?

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wtfluff
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Re: The temple endowment ceremony is changing.... again...

Post by wtfluff » Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:17 am

Meh... They're just going to start using SCHLOADS of hand sanitizer (all packaged up in neat white containers) and EVERYONE gets to veil (mask) their faced for the entire ceremony now. Maybe white rubber gloves too?

The real question is: Can you wear a mask made out of ugly fake green silk, or does it have to be white?


The collective SPLOOSH of sanitizer after every Holy Handshake™ will be epic.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

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Red Ryder
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Re: The temple endowment ceremony is changing.... again...

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:29 am

wtfluff wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:17 am
The real question is: Can you wear a mask made out of ugly fake green silk, or does it have to be white?
That would be hilarious to make masks for everyday use out of the green apron. Complete with the fig leaf pattern.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Red Ryder
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Re: The temple endowment ceremony is changing.... again...

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:32 am

Someone could call the Billings Montana temple (it’s on the open temple list) and ask them what the differences are. Maybe explain that you want to attend but are worried about the handshakes and so you’re calling to confirm before you go.

Or perhaps Corsair could take a road trip?
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Red Ryder
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Re: The temple endowment ceremony is changing.... again...

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:51 am

Saw this on Reddit.

Image
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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wtfluff
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Re: The temple endowment ceremony is changing.... again...

Post by wtfluff » Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:25 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:29 am
wtfluff wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:17 am
The real question is: Can you wear a mask made out of ugly fake green silk, or does it have to be white?
That would be hilarious to make masks for everyday use out of the green apron. Complete with the fig leaf pattern.
"Someone" in your neck of the woods actually has one of those, and may, or may not have posted photos of himself wearing it somewhere near a Polygamy Palace. Shouldn't be too hard to guess who it is.

I have read somewhere that a layer of silk actually works well for filtering droplets when used for a face covering, I imagine the fake green stuff does OK too...
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

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græy
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Re: The temple endowment ceremony is changing.... again...

Post by græy » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:08 pm

My favorite part of the announcement...
"...Given the sacredness of the temple ceremonies, we ask our members and friends not to engage in speculation or public discussions about these changes. Rather, we invite Church members to continue to look forward to the day when they may return and fully participate in sacred temple work prayerfully and gratefully.”
Its a carrot on a stick. What they're really saying is "Please don't go inactive! You should instead stay 100% committed and tithed so that you can one day come back into the temple and better understand all those amazing things we told you were there but really aren't." :lol:
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jfro18
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Re: The temple endowment ceremony is changing.... again...

Post by jfro18 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:12 pm

My biggest nitpick is the church continuing to claim the endowment ceremony is of "ancient origin."

I have a few quotes in a write-up I did about the church's "Now You Know" video on Joseph Smith and masonry (it's @ https://www.ldsdiscussions.com/blog-mas ... mple-video if anyone wants to read it), but the early church absolutely believed and were taught that *masonry* was of ancient origin and restored by Joseph Smith, but we know that is absolutely not true.

Here are some quotes:
"We have the true Masonry. The Masonry of today is received from the apostasy which took place in the days of Solomon, and David. They have now and then a thing that is correct, but we have the real thing." (Heber C. Kimball, 13 Nov. 1858, Manuscript History of Brigham Young pg. 1085)

"There is a similarity of priesthood in Masonry. Bro[ther] Joseph says Masonry was taken from priesthood but has become degenerated, but many things are perfect." (Heber C. Kimball letter to Parley Pratt, Temples of the Ancient World, p.577

"Many have joined the Masonic Institution this seems to have been a Stepping Stone or Preparation for something else, the true Origin of Masonry." (Journal of Joseph Fielding, 1844)

"Certain mystic rites which are practiced throughout Christendom claim antiquity with Solomon's temple." (President Franklin D. Richards, 1 Dec. 1890, "The Temple of the Lord," Juvenile Instructor 26)

"He [Joseph Smith] told me Freemasonry, as at present, was the apostate endowments, as sectarian religion was the apostate religion." (Benjamin F. Johnson, My Life’s Review, p.96

"If the Free Masonry of today is a remnant and corruption of the true signs and tokens of the Priesthood revealed in the days of Solomon, when the Temple of Solomon was built, then it is easy for us to understand and believe that the mythology of the north is simply a corruption of the true Jehovah-worship, as Abraham knew it and taught it to his children." (Elder Andrew Jenson, Conference Report April 1913)

"Joseph, the Prophet, was aware that there were some things about Masonry which had come down from the beginning and he desired to know what they were, hence the lodge. The Masons admitted some keys of knowledge appertaining to Masonry were lost. Joseph enquired of the Lord concerning the matter and He revealed to the Prophet true Masonry, as we have it in our temples. Owing to the superior knowledge Joseph had received, the Masons became jealous and cut off the Mormon Lodge." (President Franklin D. Richards, Rudger Clawson Diary, 4 Apr. 1899, Rudger Clawson Papers, Special Collections, Marriott Library, University of Utah)

I know we're trying to be politics free, but this feels like how Trump will repeat a lie over and over again to the point where his supporters just believe it must be true even though the evidence is so clear that it's not. The difference is that Trump is at least called out for it during interviews where as the church hides from those who would dare ask them these questions in a public/open setting.

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Mormorrisey
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Re: The temple endowment ceremony is changing.... again...

Post by Mormorrisey » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:30 pm

jfro18 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:12 pm

I know we're trying to be politics free, but this feels like how Trump will repeat a lie over and over again to the point where his supporters just believe it must be true even though the evidence is so clear that it's not. The difference is that Trump is at least called out for it during interviews where as the church hides from those who would dare ask them these questions in a public/open setting.
Who can ever forget Holland's interview with the BBC and his deer in the headlights look when the dude asked him about the penalties? "Penalties? What penalties?...Oh, we don't do them anymore." Aaaand, back under the rug with you, uncomfortable history. (As a side note, I was endowed during the penalty phase and saw the film with the preacher, so if anyone has questions, you can PM me.)

And I think you're right, now that I've given it due thought, that this is an excellent time to move away from Masonic handshakes - and you can reassure the old people who will be scandalized that the handshakes were removed that it's for their own good and/or safety from covid-19. The more I think about it, the more I'm sure that's what's going to happen; I'm with you, jfro. Announcing it now is a stroke of PR genius, so people will be really excited to see these new changes, and thus they will be more likely to accept them. As Bill Gates said on the Simpsons, "I didn't get rich by writing a lot of checks!!" And the church didn't get rich by ruffling/turning off its tithing base.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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Hagoth
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Re: The temple endowment ceremony is changing.... again...

Post by Hagoth » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:06 pm

Mormorrisey wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:30 pm
(As a side note, I was endowed during the penalty phase and saw the film with the preacher, so if anyone has questions, you can PM me.)
Me too. Remember these guys from the first film?
Image
Image
My only regret was that I came along too late to see the live session where the preacher actually led you in a song and everyone just kind of sang random hymns. Really.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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nibbler
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Re: The temple endowment ceremony is changing.... again...

Post by nibbler » Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:05 pm

That was going to be my question. Which hymns did they sing? Was it a random hymn from the hymnal?
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wtfluff
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Re: The temple endowment ceremony is changing.... again...

Post by wtfluff » Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:06 pm

Here's a 100+ billion dollar question: If (when?) there is a COVID-19 outbreak caused by an "endowment ceremony" or a weekly LD$-Inc. "sa-corona-ment meeting," will we hear about it? Or will the Corporation™ cover it up?
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

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Thoughtful
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Re: The temple endowment ceremony is changing.... again...

Post by Thoughtful » Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:10 pm

Schools are starting to have liability waivers and their insurance won't cover COVID claims.

Will the temple also have waivers?

My dad works at SoJo but I doubt he would tell me.

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