Temple changes

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no1saint
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Re: Temple changes

Post by no1saint » Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:18 am

jfro18 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:33 pm
From Reddit:

I know many have asked about the recent changes to the endowment announced by the First Presidency last month. Here are the modifications I can remember from taking my son through the temple for his mission this week:

- Up to 16 people per session, but you must be part of a single group (no combining of smaller groups).
- Only eight temple workers (four male, four female) plus the temple presidency and wives are in the temple at one time.
- Masks are required, though temple workers don't seem to understand social distancing (maybe they were hard of hearing?).
- Hand sanitizer is available throughout the ordinance rooms and other areas of the temple, but we were not compelled to use it, only offered.
- No changes to the initiatory, except that a single person both "washes" and anoints. A second person is present only as a witness.
- In the endowment room, only one male officiator and one female temple worker are present.
- A disclaimer from the First Presidency is given at the beginning of the endowment, similar but shorter (I think) than the previous one, and indicates that changes to the endowment do not change the fundamental doctrines of the temple.
- Slideshow is nearly identical (see next point).
- Tokens are shown on a slide during the presentation before each moment that one is to be given. The witness couple receives tokens from the officiator, but no one else in the room receives them. An explanation is given that the witness couple acts for each person in the session, and all are to consider themselves as having received them.
- Sanitizer at the witness couple's seat is available after receiving each token.
- The true order of prayer is conducted as normal, with no change (I sanitized afterward).
- Veil procedure is the same, except for using hand sanitizer both before and after.
- Temple workers are with you (within 10 feet or so) the entire time, including in the celestial room, which makes it difficult to have private moments with your spouse or family.
Thank you for this. Pretty small changes overall.

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Hagoth
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Re: Temple changes

Post by Hagoth » Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:00 am

jfro18 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:33 pm
- Temple workers are with you (within 10 feet or so) the entire time, including in the celestial room, which makes it difficult to have private moments with your spouse or family.
The other changes make sense, but this one is kind of weird. They are reducing social distancing in the celestial room by hovering over your shoulder? Recharging her batteries in the celestial room is my wife's favorite part. I think she would happily skip the other parts and just go straight to the CR if she could. Maybe the intention is to put subtle pressure on you to move on as quickly as possible instead of lingering to bask in the glow of the Holy Chandelier?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: Temple changes

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:23 am

Hagoth wrote:
jfro18 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:33 pm
- Temple workers are with you (within 10 feet or so) the entire time, including in the celestial room, which makes it difficult to have private moments with your spouse or family.
The other changes make sense, but this one is kind of weird. They are reducing social distancing in the celestial room by hovering over your shoulder? Recharging her batteries in the celestial room is my wife's favorite part. I think she would happily skip the other parts and just go straight to the CR if she could. Maybe the intention is to put subtle pressure on you to move on as quickly as possible instead of lingering to bask in the glow of the Holy Chandelier?
Perhaps they are watching to see if anyone sneezes on any of the furniture so they can use the consecrated disinfectant before the next group arrives.

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Corsair
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Re: Temple changes

Post by Corsair » Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:39 am

jfro18 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:33 pm
From Reddit:

I know many have asked about the recent changes to the endowment announced by the First Presidency last month. Here are the modifications I can remember from taking my son through the temple for his mission this week:
Thanks for passing this along.

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2bizE
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Re: Temple changes

Post by 2bizE » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:55 am

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:32 am
Looks like the church sent an email announcing that folks can submit names for the temple prayer rolls online. Before you get excited about submitting Boaty McBoatface, you have to log into your church account first.
Exactly which God skill does God use to read the names on the rolls of the temple?
Is this omnipresence? Is it Omni-knowledge?
Does someone still print out on paper and cut the names into strips ow will they now just slide a thumb drive or iPad into the pouch?
~2bizE

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: Temple changes

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:59 am

2bizE wrote:
FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:32 am
Looks like the church sent an email announcing that folks can submit names for the temple prayer rolls online. Before you get excited about submitting Boaty McBoatface, you have to log into your church account first.
Exactly which God skill does God use to read the names on the rolls of the temple?
Is this omnipresence? Is it Omni-knowledge?
Does someone still print out on paper and cut the names into strips ow will they now just slide a thumb drive or iPad into the pouch?
Are digital records on the internet like the Holy Ghost who is a personage of spirit but who's influence can be everywhere at once? (Except after midnight when he goes to bed of course, leaving those past curfew youths free to fornicate without a tingly reminder).

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Red Ryder
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Re: Temple changes

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:15 pm

I love reading about changes before my family learns about it. I often throw out the real changes as my best guess and then when they go through and realize I was right they are amazed.

I know we like to joke about all these changes which overall make sense from a logical practical standpoint.

But what about the doctrinal part? I find it extremely unfair that I had to get naked, wear a poncho, and get oiled up by an old dude just because I was lucky enough to go through the temple when all that was the norm. Hell, and I didn’t have to slit my throat either like some of you pantomimed.

The kids today don’t even realize how easy they have it. So for the FP to make statements that it doesn’t change the doctrinal nature. I’m offended by that.

It’s time to remove the garments. They’re offensive and uncomfortable not to mention my neighbors will never investigate the church because they think garments are weird.

It’s time to remove the handshakes permanently.
It’s time to remove going down
and returning to report.
It’s time to remove the veil .
It’s time to remove the all the weird stuff.
Make the temple a feel good message about life on earth and family connections in the eternities About living with god again.

Then they can make a statement that it doesn’t change the doctrine and everyone is happy!

Temple attendance would go up!
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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wtfluff
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Re: Temple changes

Post by wtfluff » Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:30 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:15 pm
It’s time to remove the garments. They’re offensive and uncomfortable not to mention my neighbors will never investigate the church because they think garments are weird.

It’s time to remove the handshakes permanently.
It’s time to remove going down
and returning to report.
It’s time to remove the veil .
It’s time to remove the all the weird stuff.
Make the temple a feel good message about life on earth and family connections in the eternities About living with god again.

Then they can make a statement that it doesn’t change the doctrine and everyone is happy!

Temple attendance would go up!

Sorry Red, but you forgot: It's time to stop charging people 10% of their income for plagiarized "signs and tokens."
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

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Hagoth
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Re: Temple changes

Post by Hagoth » Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:51 pm

2bizE wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:55 am
Exactly which God skill does God use to read the names on the rolls of the temple?
Is this omnipresence? Is it Omni-knowledge?
Does someone still print out on paper and cut the names into strips ow will they now just slide a thumb drive or iPad into the pouch?
Which begs the question, if God can sort out names stuffed into a bag for giving individual blessings, why can't mass endowments be done in the same way? But what about sealings you ask? just mass-seal all of the men to all of the women. The Nauvoo polygamy essay assures us it doesn't matter who marries who anyway because "family relationships will be sorted out in the life to come."
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: Temple changes

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:53 pm

Hagoth wrote:
2bizE wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:55 am
Exactly which God skill does God use to read the names on the rolls of the temple?
Is this omnipresence? Is it Omni-knowledge?
Does someone still print out on paper and cut the names into strips ow will they now just slide a thumb drive or iPad into the pouch?
Which begs the question, if God can sort out names stuffed into a bag for giving individual blessings, why can't mass endowments be done in the same way? But what about sealings you ask? just mass-seal all of the men to all of the women. The Nauvoo polygamy essay assures us it doesn't matter who marries who anyway because "family relationships will be sorted out in the life to come."
If I'm not mistaken I believe this is the idea the CoC uses and explains why they don't value temple ordinances like the Utah church. If God wants everyone sealed, bam, it's already done.

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Yobispo
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Re: Temple changes

Post by Yobispo » Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:57 am

Hagoth wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:51 pm
2bizE wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:55 am
Exactly which God skill does God use to read the names on the rolls of the temple?
Is this omnipresence? Is it Omni-knowledge?
Does someone still print out on paper and cut the names into strips ow will they now just slide a thumb drive or iPad into the pouch?
Which begs the question, if God can sort out names stuffed into a bag for giving individual blessings, why can't mass endowments be done in the same way? But what about sealings you ask? just mass-seal all of the men to all of the women. The Nauvoo polygamy essay assures us it doesn't matter who marries who anyway because "family relationships will be sorted out in the life to come."
Not my original idea, but if it's all symbolic anyway, how about Russ Nelson goes to the temple tomorrow and do a single baptism, confirmation, etc for all men. Wendy can represent all women. Done, no more temple ordinances needed and the $$ can be redirected to something else.

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Not Buying It
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Re: Temple changes

Post by Not Buying It » Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:45 am

The problem the Brethren have isn't that they can't change the culty parts of the temple ceremony - they can and have been for almost as long as there has been a temple ceremony. The problem they have is the culty parts are the parts that are super special secret sacred - take away the signs and tokens that are so special you need them to get into heaven, and why would anyone bother with it? I guess you could take the signs and tokens out and just leave the covenants, but then you lose that mystical part of it that keeps members hooked, this idea that they know something special they've promsied never to reveal that will get them into heaven. A lot of members really dig on that.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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Linked
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Re: Temple changes

Post by Linked » Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:15 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:15 pm
[Garments are awful, yada yada yada]
It’s time to remove going down ...
They tried that in the 80's and it didn't go very well.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Hagoth
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Re: Temple changes

Post by Hagoth » Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:15 pm

Yobispo wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:57 am
... no more temple ordinances needed and the $$ can be redirected to something else.
And no more need to pay tithing to remain "worthy" to do those ordinances, or to feel owned by the church-imposed guilt for not attending enough, which is why it's hard for me to imagine them giving up such a powerful donation generator and control stick.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

Anon70
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Re: Temple changes

Post by Anon70 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:55 am

Hagoth wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:00 am
jfro18 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:33 pm
- Temple workers are with you (within 10 feet or so) the entire time, including in the celestial room, which makes it difficult to have private moments with your spouse or family.
The other changes make sense, but this one is kind of weird. They are reducing social distancing in the celestial room by hovering over your shoulder? Recharging her batteries in the celestial room is my wife's favorite part. I think she would happily skip the other parts and just go straight to the CR if she could. Maybe the intention is to put subtle pressure on you to move on as quickly as possible instead of lingering to bask in the glow of the Holy Chandelier?
I’m pretty sure you can go to the celestial room without having to do a session first. You just have to ask. At least that used to be allowed. Haven’t done it in a looonnnggggg time.

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Hagoth
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Re: Temple changes

Post by Hagoth » Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:44 am

Anon70 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:55 am
I’m pretty sure you can go to the celestial room without having to do a session first. You just have to ask. At least that used to be allowed. Haven’t done it in a looonnnggggg time.
That used to be the case but Mrs. Hagoth has been denied that request at some temples. The Jordan River temple will still permit it. I doubt they would release the hounds on you if you just robed up walked into the celestial room at most temples, as long as you're not wearing the black apron to designate your power and priesthoods.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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