Bruce McConkie days

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Rob4Hope
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Bruce McConkie days

Post by Rob4Hope » Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:23 am

Does anyone have a copy of the old Mormon Doctrine (the first edition),...and can you comment on some of the changes made when Bruce got it wrong?

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Ho Lee Turtle
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Re: Bruce McConkie days

Post by Ho Lee Turtle » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:51 pm

I have access to a copy (1st edition, 1st printing). If there is something specific you want me to pull up for you, let me know. I also have later editions and printings as well.

The best resource for seeing the difference between the 1958 first edition and the 1966 second edition is a book by David A Dye titled “Changes in Mormon Doctrine”. Dye did an excellent side by side comparison of all the changes. The book is 176 pages. It was published in 2007, not sure if it’s still in print or not. Looks like there is a version for nook here: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/chang ... 1257255009. Best source if you want to see all the changes laid out in an orderly way.

If I remember right, Mark E. Petersen noted 1,067 items that needed corrected in the First edition book. Gregory Prince has a whole story about this and some of the politics about its printing in his biography about David O McKay. (pgs 49-53). It’s pretty interesting stuff. The brethren were not too happy with McConkie over it, but his father in law was the next in line to be prophet, so what do you do...
Last edited by Ho Lee Turtle on Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ho Lee Turtle
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Re: Bruce McConkie days

Post by Ho Lee Turtle » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:57 pm

Here is an example from Dye’s book of a change that makes me smile.

1958 version:

CARD PLAYING To the extent that church members play cards they are in apostasy and rebellion.

1966 version:

CARD PLAYING To the extent that church members play cards they are out of harmony with their inspired leaders.

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Rob4Hope
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Re: Bruce McConkie days

Post by Rob4Hope » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:54 am

That is an EXCELLENT lead. Thank you.

Specifically, it seems like Bruce was a VERY strong proponent that death only happened on this planet after Adam took the fruit--not before. That is a completely indefensible position IMHO.

That guy was REALLY sucked in....he seems to have believed, hook line and sinker, his own opinions.

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jfro18
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Re: Bruce McConkie days

Post by jfro18 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:22 am

Rob4Hope wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:54 am
That is an EXCELLENT lead. Thank you.

Specifically, it seems like Bruce was a VERY strong proponent that death only happened on this planet after Adam took the fruit--not before. That is a completely indefensible position IMHO.

That guy was REALLY sucked in....he seems to have believed, hook line and sinker, his own opinions.
But at the same time, if there was death on the planet before Adam... then the entire premise of the atonement is torpedoed.

Its a completely indefensible position given science, history, etc, but if you are a church that has doubled down on a literalistic view of the Bible, there's no flexibility to then say the stories that are the foundation of your new texts are mythical.

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moksha
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Re: Bruce McConkie days

Post by moksha » Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:18 pm

Ho Lee Turtle, what changes were made to the entry on the Catholic Church between the 1958 and 1966 editions?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Ho Lee Turtle
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Re: Bruce McConkie days

Post by Ho Lee Turtle » Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:48 pm

Ho Lee Turtle, what changes were made to the entry on the Catholic Church between the 1958 and 1966 editions?
You are probably referring to the entry that most people think about which is actually the "Church of the Devil" entry:

It's hard to create the post to show the changes side by side like Dye does in his book, but I have copied the text as best I can so you can at least get the changes for reference. The blue text is the 1958 edition, the red is the change that appeared in the 1966 edition - hope its not too confusing this way. - Also - I did not include the text that remained unchanged, so it is not the complete entry as it appears if you read it from a current version, just the changes between 1958 and 1966 are shown below.


(TC) = text change (the subsequent red is what it was changed to)
(WD) = word deleted (did not appear in 1966 edition)

1958 Edition - CHURCH OF THE DEVIL.
1966 Edition - CHURCH OF THE DEVIL

(TC) There are two scriptural senses in which the titles church of the devil and great and abominable church are used:

1. All churches or organizations of whatever name or nature – whether political, philosophical, educational, economic, social, fraternal, civic, or religious – which are designed to take men on a course that leads away from God and his laws and thus from salvation in the kingdom of God; and
2. The Roman Catholic Church specifically – singled out, set apart, described and designated as being “Most abominable above all other
churches.” (1 Ne. 13:5.)


The titles church of the devil and great and abominable church are used to identify all churches or organizations of whatever name or nature – whether political, philosophical, educational, economic, social, fraternal, civic, or religious – which are designed to take man on a course that leads away from God and his laws and thus from salvation in the kingdom of God.


(WD) Such agencies have been and are founded or fostered by the devil who is an enemy to all righteousness.

(WD) It is also to the Book of Mormon to which we turn for the plainest description of the Catholic Church as the great and abominable church.


(TC) He “saw the devil that he was the foundation of it;” and also the murders, wealth, harlotry, persecutions, and evil desires that historically have
been part of this satanic organization.


He “saw the devil that he was the foundation of it”; and also the murders, wealth, harlotry, persecutions, and evil desires that are part of this organization.

(TC) He saw that this most abominable of all churches was founded after the day of Christ and his apostles; that it took away from the gospel of the Lamb many covenants and many plain and precious parts; that it perverted the right ways of the Lord; that
it deleted many teachings from the Bible; that this church was “the mother of harlots;” and finally that the Lord would again restore the gospel of salvation. (1 Ne. 13:24-42.)


He saw that this church took away from the gospel of the Lamb many covenants and many plain and precious parts; that it perverted the right ways
of the Lord; that it deleted many teachings frog the Bible; that it was “the mother of harlots”; and finally that the Lord would again restore the gospel of salvation, (1 Ne. 13:24– 42.)


(WD) Nephi beheld further that this church was the “mother of abominations,” and “the whore of all the earth” who “sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.” In contrast the dominions of the true Church were small upon the earth. (1 Ne. 14:9-17; 2 Thess. 2:1-12.)

(WD) as ruling from Rome, the city built on “seven mountains”;

(WD) The contentions and entanglements between the Catholic Church and the communist forces could well lead to a fulfillment of this prediction.

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Rob4Hope
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Re: Bruce McConkie days

Post by Rob4Hope » Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:34 am

Bruce didn't pull punches in that first edition. Its interesting stuff.

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