Old religion in a new bottle

Discussions toward a better understanding of LDS doctrine, history, and culture. Discussion of Christianity, religion, and faith in general is welcome.
Post Reply
User avatar
FiveFingerMnemonic
Posts: 1484
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:50 pm
Contact:

Old religion in a new bottle

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:41 pm

I thought this article was an interesting treatise that the new wave of political cancel culture is a merely a return of puritan type religious thought. Driven by the fall of protestantism over the last several decades.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/08/1 ... ew-bottle/

User avatar
moksha
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

Re: Old religion in a new bottle

Post by moksha » Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:42 am

I am cautious of any articles trying to stir up divisiveness before the election, since that was the aim of the Russian hackers in the last election. I admit my buttons are pushed by the term "Wokeness" and if my Mormon roots were even deeper, I would probably have my hackles raised when I hear the term "Black Lives Matter". I refuse to let some techno-geeks from St. Petersburg Russia push my buttons like that.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

Reuben
Posts: 1455
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: Old religion in a new bottle

Post by Reuben » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:23 am

I agree that a lot of people on the American left have taken up their political positions with religious zeal. Politics has always been like this, so the question is whether their numbers have increased. I think they have, partly driven by polarization and partly from seeking new spiritual homes.

I disagree that they have no spiritual outlet. We're seeing it. I think the interviewed author, Joseph Bottum, thinks the only true outlet is Christianity.

I think it's frustrating that Bottum can easily see this spiritualism merging with politics, but can't see mainline religion having done - and still doing - the same.

I don't think the toxic aspects come from decoupling Christian ideals from Christ. Shunning and ostracism are nearly universal, suggesting that they arise from human psychology. Plenty of true believers in Christ do it. (I wouldn't let Bottum move the goalposts on this if he tried.)

I like that Bottum distinguishes between collective and individual guilt. Not doing so is a huge mistake I see everywhere in American politics. It causes division and reactance, and muddies the waters.

I agree that white guilt shares many features with original sin. I don't see a huge problem with either one as long as they're understood as being collective rather than individual, and they direct actual improvements. I would rather see white guilt replaced by human guilt, actually, as we all have in us the seeds of doing terrible harm while knowing we're righteous, and our ancestors have done plenty of this.

I disagree that there's no way to be forgiven for white guilt. My very scientific Google search for "how to get rid of racial guilt" (without quotes) turns up many, many articles about it, which more or less outline repentance. It's plainly talked about in moral terms, too, which strengthens Bottum's thesis.

It's also talked about as being individual, which really bothers me, not least because it drives a lot of people away who would otherwise help. I contrast it with Lyndsay Hansen Park's mantra "hard on systems, soft on people."

Lastly, does this thread belong in The Coffee Shop?
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 55 guests