It's Been A Bad Month For John Gee

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Mormorrisey
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It's Been A Bad Month For John Gee

Post by Mormorrisey » Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:51 am

So a couple of weeks ago, I had the opportunity to have a brief look at John Gee's non-Egyptian book, Saving Faith, which he published this year, and it basically was an attempt (from just reading the introduction) to counteract Jana Riess's book on millennial Mormons - and her conclusion that many are leaving. I found the introduction on Google books. In the introduction, which I cannot directly quote for reasons that will become clear, he basically says that the data saying the youth of the church are leaving in droves is just nonsense. And then he quotes a Pew study that youth were strong in the faith, a study I remember contradicted the data numbers, and I wondered why. After reading both studies, it's clear to me that while the youth who remain are indeed strong, young people were still leaving; so it's pretty clear one has nothing to do with the other. However, on the numbers, Gee basically says that Riess is wrong in her data sets, because, and I kid you not, ELDER COOK SAYS THE CHURCH HAS NEVER BEEN STRONGER. And since Cook has the real numbers, Gee believes him, and not the work that Riess has done, in a book published by Oxford University Press. Couldn't believe it. I was going to post about this, and then got very busy.

Fast forward this week, and some BYU prof, Kevin Shafer, just lambasts Gee for his shoddy research in a BCC blog post, found here:

https://bycommonconsent.com/2020/08/23/ ... expertise/

It is a savage review, and the points Shafter makes are priceless, you have to read it - he just missed the Cook quote to top it off. So I went to get the quote, and according to Chino Blanco of reddit, Deseret Book has pulled the book from it's shelves:

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... lled_john/

And that seems to be the case, because I can't find it anymore on Google books, amazon or Deseret books to provide you with this great dismissal of Riess BECAUSE COOK SAYS SO. My God, they've left John Gee out to dry not only for his shoddy Egyptology, but for this nonsense too.

If he wasn't such an arrogant sot, I might actually feel sorry for him.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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jfro18
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Re: It's Been A Bad Month For John Gee

Post by jfro18 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:50 am

John Gee deserves this, and what a month he's had.

First Brian Hauglid exposed a lot of the dirty tricks Gee uses in apologetics.

The Robert Ritner just demolished every apologetic claim Gee's ever made.

Then Gee had that video where he admitted that Olishem/Ulisem isn't even looking for the right thing.

And now this.

It couldn't have happened to a more deserving person.

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RubinHighlander
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Re: It's Been A Bad Month For John Gee

Post by RubinHighlander » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:18 pm

Did Gee attend the Paul Dunn school of gas-lighting? He seems to be working hard to get his name up there on that same wall of shame.
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moksha
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Re: It's Been A Bad Month For John Gee

Post by moksha » Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:12 pm

Mormorrisey wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:51 am
https://bycommonconsent.com/2020/08/23/ ... expertise/

It is a savage review, and the points Shafter makes are priceless, you have to read it - he just missed the Cook quote to top it off. So I went to get the quote, and according to Chino Blanco of reddit, Deseret Book has pulled the book from it's shelves:
I noticed some apologists for Gee entered the discussion fray and are using their usual obfuscation and denial. I suspect TT is either Gee or one of his idolatrous Gods from Egypt.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
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Apologeticsislying
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Re: It's Been A Bad Month For John Gee

Post by Apologeticsislying » Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:14 pm

I think Gee knows his Egyptology career is burning and in shambles, so he is going for General Authority status.
Can you imagine how powerful his testimony is going to be as an Apostle concerning the truthfulness of the Joseph Smith Papyri and the Pearl of Great Price? Shiver me timbers Batman!!!
The same energy that emerges from the fountain of eternity into time, is the Holy Grail at the center of the universe of the inexhaustible vitality in each of our hearts. The Holy Grail, like the Kingdom of God, is within. -Joseph Campbell-

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Mormorrisey
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Re: It's Been A Bad Month For John Gee

Post by Mormorrisey » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:49 pm

Looks like the folks over at the Mormon Discussions board had a longer look at Gee's book when it first came out, and had an interesting discussion:

http://mormondiscussions.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53620

I think I need to check out that board a little more! I've seen some familiar avatars, but I guess I'm not a real progressive Mormon "swinger," I'm fairly monogamous when it comes to my Mormon discussion boards. Maybe the Deznat folks are a little off? :D
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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wtfluff
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Re: It's Been A Bad Month For John Gee

Post by wtfluff » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:19 pm

And Muhlestein digs a hole even deeper...

https://www.fairmormon.org/blog/2020/08 ... of-abraham
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: It's Been A Bad Month For John Gee

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:29 am

wtfluff wrote:And Muhlestein digs a hole even deeper...

https://www.fairmormon.org/blog/2020/08 ... of-abraham
The RFM handling of this blog post by Muhlestein is savage! Loved it.

https://radiofreemormon.org/2020/08/rad ... uhlestein/

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jfro18
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Re: It's Been A Bad Month For John Gee

Post by jfro18 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:41 am

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:29 am
The RFM handling of this blog post by Muhlestein is savage! Loved it.

https://radiofreemormon.org/2020/08/rad ... uhlestein/
I just listened to this as I'm working and wow... RFM absolutely destroys Muhlestein's cowardice in pretending to take the high road while hiding from an open invitation to do exactly what Muhlestein claims they are not allowing him to do - present his case and why the podcasts were wrong.

It has been a terrible month for Mormon apologetics... I have to wonder if anyone who doesn't already agree that the church isn't true is listening, because if they are they probably won't be going back.

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1smartdodog
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Re: It's Been A Bad Month For John Gee

Post by 1smartdodog » Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:03 am

I have never had any real money or position of power. So maybe integrity means more to me. Hard to understand how someone is willing to throw it away for the sake of a fundamentalist religion.

All those years of study only to amount to being to being derided by your peers. All for the sake of a little prestige in your little circle of true deniers.


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