Baptismal confirmation and priesthood

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2bizE
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Baptismal confirmation and priesthood

Post by 2bizE » Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:57 pm

Why does a person with the MP have to do a confirmation after a person is baptized (with the AP)? Why can’t someone with AP do it?
~2bizE

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wtfluff
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Re: Baptismal confirmation and priesthood

Post by wtfluff » Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:31 pm

Don't know if there is any other reference as to which priesthood has the magick powers for the confirmation incantation other than the Holy Handook™

COJCOLd$-Inc. General Handbook, section 18.8.1:
Who Performs the Ordinance
The ordinance of confirmation is performed by Melchizedek Priesthood holders. The one who acts as voice must be approved by the bishop (or by the mission president if a full-time missionary is performing the confirmation).

Only a Melchizedek Priesthood holder who is temple worthy may act as voice for a confirmation. However, a bishop may allow a father who holds the Melchizedek Priesthood to stand in the circle for the confirmation of his child even if the father is not fully temple worthy (see 18.3).

At least one member of the bishopric participates in this ordinance. When missionary elders have taught a convert, the bishop invites them to participate.

To act as voice in this ordinance, a person who is outside his own ward must show a current temple recommend to the presiding leader. Or he may show a Recommend to Perform an Ordinance signed by a member of his bishopric.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

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2bizE
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Re: Baptismal confirmation and priesthood

Post by 2bizE » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:19 pm

wtfluff wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:31 pm
Don't know if there is any other reference as to which priesthood has the magick powers for the confirmation incantation other than the Holy Handook™

COJCOLd$-Inc. General Handbook, section 18.8.1:
Who Performs the Ordinance
The ordinance of confirmation is performed by Melchizedek Priesthood holders. The one who acts as voice must be approved by the bishop (or by the mission president if a full-time missionary is performing the confirmation).

Only a Melchizedek Priesthood holder who is temple worthy may act as voice for a confirmation. However, a bishop may allow a father who holds the Melchizedek Priesthood to stand in the circle for the confirmation of his child even if the father is not fully temple worthy (see 18.3).

At least one member of the bishopric participates in this ordinance. When missionary elders have taught a convert, the bishop invites them to participate.

To act as voice in this ordinance, a person who is outside his own ward must show a current temple recommend to the presiding leader. Or he may show a Recommend to Perform an Ordinance signed by a member of his bishopric.
So, to allow a person entry into the Kong’s of God it is fine for an AAronic priesthood holder to grant this, but to become a member of the church requires a MP holder. Somewhere a notary public should also be involved...
~2bizE

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wtfluff
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Re: Baptismal confirmation and priesthood

Post by wtfluff » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:56 pm

2bizE wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:19 pm
wtfluff wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:31 pm
Don't know if there is any other reference as to which priesthood has the magick powers for the confirmation incantation other than the Holy Handook™

COJCOLd$-Inc. General Handbook, section 18.8.1:
Who Performs the Ordinance
The ordinance of confirmation is performed by Melchizedek Priesthood holders. The one who acts as voice must be approved by the bishop (or by the mission president if a full-time missionary is performing the confirmation).

Only a Melchizedek Priesthood holder who is temple worthy may act as voice for a confirmation. However, a bishop may allow a father who holds the Melchizedek Priesthood to stand in the circle for the confirmation of his child even if the father is not fully temple worthy (see 18.3).

At least one member of the bishopric participates in this ordinance. When missionary elders have taught a convert, the bishop invites them to participate.

To act as voice in this ordinance, a person who is outside his own ward must show a current temple recommend to the presiding leader. Or he may show a Recommend to Perform an Ordinance signed by a member of his bishopric.
So, to allow a person entry into the Kong’s of God it is fine for an AAronic priesthood holder to grant this, but to become a member of the church requires a MP holder. Somewhere a notary public should also be involved...
Slow down there Fella! If you go that far, Kirton|McConkie might have to get involved. The Lard's Holy, full service commercial law firm has much more important tasks to take care of. That would also be expen$ive.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

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Palerider
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Re: Baptismal confirmation and priesthood

Post by Palerider » Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:13 pm

I think the church assumes the ancient Apostles were the only ones with priesthood authority to give the gift of the Holy Ghost and their authority was not accompanied by the "Aaronic" priesthood as an appendage as in today's church.

The pseudopigraphical 3rd Nephi 18:37 kind of confirms this.

"And the multitude heard not the words which he spake, therefore they did not bear record; but the disciples bare record that he gave them power to give the Holy Ghost. And I will show unto you hereafter that this record is true."
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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nibbler
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Re: Baptismal confirmation and priesthood

Post by nibbler » Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:03 am

Matthew 3:11 comes to mind:
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
John the Baptist had authority to baptize but acknowledged that someone mightier (Jesus) was required to "baptize" with the holy ghost.
We see things not as they are, but as we are ourselves. - H.M. Tomlinson

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Hagoth
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Re: Baptismal confirmation and priesthood

Post by Hagoth » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:00 pm

A Warlock outranks an Enchanter and can both cast out spirits and cast them IN.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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