Is anyone talking about the new proclamation?

Discussions toward a better understanding of LDS doctrine, history, and culture. Discussion of Christianity, religion, and faith in general is welcome.
User avatar
AdmiralHoldo
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:49 am

Is anyone talking about the new proclamation?

Post by AdmiralHoldo » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:55 am

I know Pres Nelson was ALL sorts of excited to roll out this new proclamation - the awkwardly abbreviated TROTFOTGOJC:ABPTTW (seriously) or as I like to think of it, the "Fleshy Tables Proclamation." I'm sure he has visions of himself being the next Hinckley but it sure doesn't seem to be going that way. When the FamProc came out, people grabbed onto it with both hands, I think everyone I knew had a framed copy of it on their wall within a month. Have you noticed any of your TBM friends or family members talking about the new Proc, cutting it out of vinyl with their Cricut (mininum of three fonts!) and sticking it on their wall? Because I have literally not seen one of my TBM friends the least bit excited about this thing. The Corona virus really rained on Nelson's parade... too bad nobody could have prophesized, seen, or revealed that *shrug*

User avatar
nibbler
Posts: 595
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:12 pm

Re: Is anyone talking about the new proclamation?

Post by nibbler » Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:25 pm

AdmiralHoldo wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:55 am
The Corona virus really rained on Nelson's parade...
Yeah, I think the pandemic got in the way but it's hard to tell. I suppose you could say this about the family proclamation but this one had a distinct, "No duh, we've talked about this stuff each and every Sunday for as long as I can remember," quality to it. I didn't consume it through an orthodox lens so it's hard for me to tell whether the orthodox were as underwhelmed as I was.

That said, right after it came out our PH quorum dedicated three consecutive virtual meetings to the new proclamation and I've heard nothing since. I had forgotten it existed until I saw this thread. Maybe that's all the gas the new proclamation had among the orthodox, about three meetings worth.

I'm guessing that the original intent was to get every member to frame it in their house and to use it as a missionary tool and that they'd squeeze at least a year's worth of attention and effort out of promoting the thing but, as you said, the pandemic.
We see things not as they are, but as we are ourselves. - H.M. Tomlinson

User avatar
deacon blues
Posts: 1319
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:37 am

Re: Is anyone talking about the new proclamation?

Post by deacon blues » Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:15 pm

I haven't heard of it. It is because I'm out of touch?
God is Love. God is Truth

User avatar
AdmiralHoldo
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:49 am

Re: Is anyone talking about the new proclamation?

Post by AdmiralHoldo » Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:33 pm

nibbler wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:25 pm

I'm guessing that the original intent was to get every member to frame it in their house and to use it as a missionary tool and that they'd squeeze at least a year's worth of attention and effort out of promoting the thing but, as you said, the pandemic.
You could almost say they wanted us to ponderize it.

User avatar
blazerb
Posts: 857
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:35 pm

Re: Is anyone talking about the new proclamation?

Post by blazerb » Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:48 pm

AdmiralHoldo wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:55 am
I know Pres Nelson was ALL sorts of excited to roll out this new proclamation - the awkwardly abbreviated TROTFOTGOJC:ABPTTW (seriously) or as I like to think of it, the "Fleshy Tables Proclamation." I'm sure he has visions of himself being the next Hinckley but it sure doesn't seem to be going that way. When the FamProc came out, people grabbed onto it with both hands, I think everyone I knew had a framed copy of it on their wall within a month. Have you noticed any of your TBM friends or family members talking about the new Proc, cutting it out of vinyl with their Cricut (mininum of three fonts!) and sticking it on their wall? Because I have literally not seen one of my TBM friends the least bit excited about this thing. The Corona virus really rained on Nelson's parade... too bad nobody could have prophesized, seen, or revealed that *shrug*
Did RFM do an episode comparing this proclamation to the 1980 proclamation in honor of the 150th anniversary of the church's founding? I know I heard it somewhere. They are very similar. If Nelson thought he could build up excitement, he was mistaken. I don't think it would have been much better without a pandemic, but maybe it would have been the subject of weekly sacrament meeting talks. That could have created the appearance of excitement, I guess.

User avatar
moksha
Posts: 3274
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

Re: Is anyone talking about the new proclamation?

Post by moksha » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:11 pm

When a heart surgeon starts talking about etching fleshy tables on your heart, do you:

A. Put "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" on the DVD to look for clues.
B. Fast and pray that you simply misheard or misread it.
C. Ask your primary physician for a second opinion.
D. Realize this is some clue to be deciphered with a seer stone.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

User avatar
wtfluff
Posts: 2740
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: Worshiping Gravity / Pulling Taffy

Re: Is anyone talking about the new proclamation?

Post by wtfluff » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:37 pm

deacon blues wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:15 pm
I haven't heard of it. It is because I'm out of touch?
This right here says everything that needs to be known about the new proclamation: "What new proclamation?"

If your believing family members haven't even mentioned it, then whatever Re-Brand Rusty's intention for it was ended up being a lead balloon. Besides, as already mentioned, there's absolutely nothing new in the "new" proclamation. EDIT: Just for fun I took a peak at Deseret Book's website. Plenty of fancy versions of the Proclamation Against the Family available, NOTHING related to Rusty's proc.

Didn't the new proclamation come out at the same time as the new Bathtub Jesus logo? Is anyone talking about the new logo? (Besides jerk-wads like me making fun of it? :twisted: )
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

User avatar
1smartdodog
Posts: 415
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:51 pm

Re: Is anyone talking about the new proclamation?

Post by 1smartdodog » Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:52 am

I cant recall what it was about. I do remember it being under whelming. Maybe every one else did also but are afraid to admit it. Just letting it go down the memory hole.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
“Five percent of the people think; ten percent of the people think they think; and the other eighty-five percent would rather die than think.”
― Thomas A. Edison

User avatar
nibbler
Posts: 595
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:12 pm

Re: Is anyone talking about the new proclamation?

Post by nibbler » Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:11 am

moksha wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:11 pm
When a heart surgeon starts talking about etching fleshy tables on your heart, do you:

A. Put "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" on the DVD to look for clues.
B. Fast and pray that you simply misheard or misread it.
C. Ask your primary physician for a second opinion.
D. Realize this is some clue to be deciphered with a seer stone.
Maybe it's like that surgeon from a few years back that carved their initials into people's livers.
We see things not as they are, but as we are ourselves. - H.M. Tomlinson

User avatar
Red Ryder
Posts: 2824
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:14 pm

Re: Is anyone talking about the new proclamation?

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:22 am

Wasn’t it just a rehashed version of the First Vision and Restoration?

Seems less proclaiming and more repeating the same origin narrative.

From my TMB family perspective, the Pandemic didn't really get in the way of Nelson.

Nelson is the super prophet that predicted and prepared the church for the pandemic. He’s the man!
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

User avatar
Yobispo
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:35 pm

Re: Is anyone talking about the new proclamation?

Post by Yobispo » Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:08 pm

I think we'll find out how important it is to the leadership by how much they reference it in the next GC Show.

User avatar
jfro18
Posts: 1555
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:41 pm

Re: Is anyone talking about the new proclamation?

Post by jfro18 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:18 pm

In the months since GC, I would say the proc on the family is referenced 10-20x as much as this on the little bit I've read on Reddit/Twitter/etc... I think this is just a rehashing of their 1980s proclamation as RFM did a podcast on, and there's just nothing new in there whatsoever.

It's a great marketing piece for families to hang on a wall, but it's just a cliff's notes version of the church's views of their founding.

User avatar
2bizE
Posts: 1801
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:33 pm

Re: Is anyone talking about the new proclamation?

Post by 2bizE » Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:34 pm

No. I think most TBMs think it is stupid. It’s just the first missionary discussion. Everyone has heard it that wants to.... I’m not sure who the proclamation is focused on because the world could care less...
~2bizE

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 4658
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: Is anyone talking about the new proclamation?

Post by Hagoth » Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:41 pm

AdmiralHoldo wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:55 am
I'm sure he has visions of himself being the next Hinckley but it sure doesn't seem to be going that way.
I think he wanted to be the Hinkley slayer, considering how he turned Hinkley's praise for the word Mormon into a victory for Satan.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

User avatar
Jeffret
Posts: 904
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 6:49 pm

Re: Is anyone talking about the new proclamation?

Post by Jeffret » Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:17 pm

Those of us who were paying attention way back then remember that the initial response to the PotF (otherwise known as the Croc-Proc to some of us), was pretty ho-hum. Everybody looked at it and said, "Yeah, okay, we already know all that. Nothing to get excited about."

But, what the members didn't realize is that the PotF was primarily a political document, to be used in its anti-gay activism and court filings. They needed it to be heavily accepted to use it in their court filings, which they figured would make it a sincerely held religious belief and unassailable. (Hence why it was referred to as a "crock".) There was nothing new in it, because it was just socially accepted, but they needed something referenceable.

Initially the members really didn't care. No one posted it on their walls. No one crocheted or cross-stitched it. It wasn't talked about in meetings and talks. This would essentially defeat its entire purpose. The general quorums were all dispatched around the world to talk it up. It was the focus of GA led stake conferences and other meetings in a big wave. It was pushed in GC. Suddenly, the members decided it was the most important, sublime thing they had ever heard, in spite of its many flaws.
"Close your eyes, for your eyes will only tell the truth,
And the truth isn't what you want to see" (Charles Hart, "The Music of the Night")

User avatar
alas
Posts: 1604
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:10 pm

Re: Is anyone talking about the new proclamation?

Post by alas » Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:26 pm

We were handed a copy and TOLD to have it framed and hang it in a prominent place in our living rooms. Funny but mine went in the garbage. Then for Christmas, we were given a framed version by my MIL.

So, it had nothing to do with the members being excited, and more to do with being instructed.

So, wait until the powers that be notice the membership is indifferent. They will start ordering us all to be excited, and the good sheep will all do as instructed. It took a while for them to really push the croc proc.

User avatar
Jeffret
Posts: 904
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 6:49 pm

Re: Is anyone talking about the new proclamation?

Post by Jeffret » Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:13 am

One thing you have to credit Hinckley for (in spite of his other faults) is his ability with PR. He knew how to create buzz. The PotF needed buzz, at least inside the church, and he delivered it. He was certainly better at it than any previous or following president. I haven't paid much attention to Nelson, but he seems to not grasp PR all that well. Accepting the "Mormon" moniker and creating a campaign around it was a good PR move. Insisting on something that reporters don't know how to use isn't.
"Close your eyes, for your eyes will only tell the truth,
And the truth isn't what you want to see" (Charles Hart, "The Music of the Night")

User avatar
nibbler
Posts: 595
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:12 pm

Re: Is anyone talking about the new proclamation?

Post by nibbler » Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:47 pm

The tease that Nelson gave during the October '19 conference for the April '20 conference didn't do it for you? ;)
We see things not as they are, but as we are ourselves. - H.M. Tomlinson

User avatar
deacon blues
Posts: 1319
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:37 am

Re: Is anyone talking about the new proclamation?

Post by deacon blues » Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:51 pm

deacon blues wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:15 pm
I haven't heard of it. It is because I'm out of touch?
So... is the new proclamation about Joseph Smith (the other anointed one) being true? He it is that we are not evil of to speak ?
God is Love. God is Truth

User avatar
wtfluff
Posts: 2740
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: Worshiping Gravity / Pulling Taffy

Re: Is anyone talking about the new proclamation?

Post by wtfluff » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:46 pm

deacon blues wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:51 pm
deacon blues wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:15 pm
I haven't heard of it. It is because I'm out of touch?
So... is the new proclamation about Joseph Smith (the other anointed one) being true? He it is that we are not evil of to speak ?
Restoration Proclamation

There's also videos of Rebrand Rusty™ reading it if if you'd like to bore yourself that way.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests