Mountain Meadows, 163 years later.

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deacon blues
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Mountain Meadows, 163 years later.

Post by deacon blues » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:34 am

Today Utah has its own special 9/11 commemoration. The massacre part of the Mountain Meadows Massacre happened 163 years ago today. A month ago our family had a reunion in Cedar City, and I was tempted to suggest a visit to the massacre site, but decided against it. I'm the only sibling or spouse who is "out." The church did build a monument there. Maybe I'll suggest a visit if the Shakespeare Festival starts up again next year. I feel my TBM family members should be reminded of it from time to time, just to balance their bias. :roll:
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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: Mountain Meadows, 163 years later.

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:21 am

A podcast on the event was posted today. Interview with the gentleman who discovered in 2014 the mass graves the army dug for the victims.

https://heritageandarts.utah.gov/discov ... t-bassett/
Last edited by FiveFingerMnemonic on Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Red Ryder
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Re: Mountain Meadows, 163 years later.

Post by Red Ryder » Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:07 pm

Just think of the labor and effort it took to move all those rocks.

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Not Buying It
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Re: Mountain Meadows, 163 years later.

Post by Not Buying It » Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:46 pm

Why are you bringing this up? President Hinckley took care of it. Well, he didn't apologize of course, and didn't even actually admit Church leadership was involved in any way. But hey, he was a "peacemaker", and apparently thought he had put the matter to rest once and for all.

What a bunch of baloney. President Hinckley should have been ashamed of himself. He made what should have been a commemoration of the victims all about how the Church wasn't guilty. Because after all that's the important thing in this situation. That's really creepy if you ask me.

“This is an emotional experience for me,” said President Hinckley. “I come as peacemaker. This is not a time for recrimination or the assignment of blame. No one can explain what happened in these meadows 142 years ago. We may speculate, but we do not know. We do not understand it. We cannot comprehend it. We can only say the past is long since gone. It cannot be recalled. It cannot be changed. It is time to leave the entire matter in the hands of God, who deals justly in all things. His is a wisdom far beyond our own.”

President Hinckley continued: “I sit in the chair that Brigham Young occupied as President of the Church at the time of the tragedy. I have read very much of the history of what occurred here. There is no question in my mind that he was opposed to what happened. Had there been a faster means of communication, it never would have happened and history would have been different. That which we have done here must never be construed as an acknowledgment on the part of the Church of any complicity in the occurrences of that fateful and tragic day. But we have an obligation. We have a moral responsibility. We have a Christian duty to honor, respect, and to do all feasible to remember and recognize those who died here.”
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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blazerb
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Re: Mountain Meadows, 163 years later.

Post by blazerb » Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:24 pm

It takes some chutzpah to say that it's not the time for blame when the organization you lead is unavoidably to blame. I liked GBH when I was TBM. The more I learn about him, the more I realize what an actor he was. He played the kindly grandpa while actually being Monty Burns.
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Hagoth
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Re: Mountain Meadows, 163 years later.

Post by Hagoth » Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:23 pm

Not Buying It wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:46 pm
This is not a time for recrimination or the assignment of blame.
Funny how the timing is never right, yet for some reason no matter how long they wait the blame just never seems to go away. I'm sure if apostates had been responsible it would have been the church doing the recrimination, and it would have been swift and vindictive.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

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Mackman
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Re: Mountain Meadows, 163 years later.

Post by Mackman » Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:22 pm

If they would just accept responsibility and apologize things would get better but to try and deny and shift blame will only prolong the agony of it all !!!

Reuben
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Re: Mountain Meadows, 163 years later.

Post by Reuben » Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:14 pm

“This is an emotional experience for me,” said President Hinckley. “I come as peacemaker. This is not a time for recrimination or the assignment of blame.
Convenient.
No one can explain what happened in these meadows 142 years ago.
False.
We may speculate, but we do not know.
False.
We do not understand it. We cannot comprehend it.
False. False.
We can only say the past is long since gone.
"I don't want to look in the mirror, because it might show me something about the church I lead that I would be ashamed of."
It cannot be recalled. It cannot be changed.
True. True.
It is time to leave the entire matter in the hands of God, who deals justly in all things. His is a wisdom far beyond our own.”
"I don't want to do anything more about this."
President Hinckley continued: “I sit in the chair that Brigham Young occupied as President of the Church at the time of the tragedy. I have read very much of the history of what occurred here. There is no question in my mind that he was opposed to what happened. Had there been a faster means of communication, it never would have happened and history would have been different. That which we have done here must never be construed as an acknowledgment on the part of the Church of any complicity in the occurrences of that fateful and tragic day. But we have an obligation. We have a moral responsibility. We have a Christian duty to honor, respect, and to do all feasible to remember and recognize those who died here.”
What a putz. What a moral coward.

Makes me wonder how this compares with Eyring's more recent speech. IIRC, it was written by Jensen, who seems to be more interested in truth than a lot of the other suits.
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

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