Canonized Stupidity

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Hagoth
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Canonized Stupidity

Post by Hagoth » Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:04 pm

This thread springs from a statement by Alas on another tread: "The really stupid astronomy in the BoA that Joseph believed to be true has been canonized." *

What are some of your favorite pieces of canonized stupidity?

I'll start with the Book of Ether:

-wooden submarines filled with elephants and elephant poop for a year, and enough food to produce all of that elephant poop.

-snakes herding cows.

-2 million people - every man, woman, and child of an entire civilization- in a fight to the LAST FREAKIN' MAN. And the reason? They were just too wicked and pissed off to have enough sense not to kill everyone.

* last week I tried to engage a TBM brother-in-law in this discussion. He told me the barges had an inner hull that swiveled so everything remained upright when the boat rolled over. At least he's thinking about it enough to identify a problem.
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deacon blues
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Re: Canonized Stupidity

Post by deacon blues » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:24 pm

Two huge civilizations choosing one spot: the Hill Cumorah to fight two wars of extermination. And nary a sword or skeleton remains. :o
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wtfluff
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Re: Canonized Stupidity

Post by wtfluff » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:08 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:04 pm
This thread springs from a statement by Alas on another tread: "The really stupid astronomy in the BoA that Joseph believed to be true has been canonized." *

What are some of your favorite pieces of canonized stupidity?

I'll start with the Book of Ether:

-wooden submarines filled with elephants and elephant poop for a year, and enough food to produce all of that elephant poop.

-snakes herding cows.

-2 million people - every man, woman, and child of an entire civilization- in a fight to the LAST FREAKIN' MAN. And the reason? They were just too wicked and pissed off to have enough sense not to kill everyone.

* last week I tried to engage a TBM brother-in-law in this discussion. He told me the barges had an inner hull that swiveled so everything remained upright when the boat rolled over. At least he's thinking about it enough to identify a problem.
* Except... "The book" actually says that they put doors in both the top and bottom of the dish-barges, because after being "tossed about" they wouldn't know which way was up, and they would have to open the doors to see which would let in air or water.

Yeah: Jaradite barges are one of the first shelf items my fluffy brain can recall.
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2bizE
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Re: Canonized Stupidity

Post by 2bizE » Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:27 am

wtfluff wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:08 pm
Hagoth wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:04 pm
This thread springs from a statement by Alas on another tread: "The really stupid astronomy in the BoA that Joseph believed to be true has been canonized." *

What are some of your favorite pieces of canonized stupidity?

I'll start with the Book of Ether:

-wooden submarines filled with elephants and elephant poop for a year, and enough food to produce all of that elephant poop.

-snakes herding cows.

-2 million people - every man, woman, and child of an entire civilization- in a fight to the LAST FREAKIN' MAN. And the reason? They were just too wicked and pissed off to have enough sense not to kill everyone.

* last week I tried to engage a TBM brother-in-law in this discussion. He told me the barges had an inner hull that swiveled so everything remained upright when the boat rolled over. At least he's thinking about it enough to identify a problem.
* Except... "The book" actually says that they put doors in both the top and bottom of the dish-barges, because after being "tossed about" they wouldn't know which way was up, and they would have to open the doors to see which would let in air or water.

Yeah: Jaradite barges are one of the first shelf items my fluffy brain can recall.
I had forgotten about the door. I went and read it again. Sure enough, it talks like a door, tight like unto a dish. I always envisioned this barge was like a whale. Hole on top and bottom. Now it has a door to let the animals in...
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fetchface
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Re: Canonized Stupidity

Post by fetchface » Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:57 am

wtfluff wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:08 pm
* Except... "The book" actually says that they put doors in both the top and bottom of the dish-barges, because after being "tossed about" they wouldn't know which way was up, and they would have to open the doors to see which would let in air or water.

Yeah: Jaradite barges are one of the first shelf items my fluffy brain can recall.
It's so bizarre that I have to wonder if Joseph just thought that everyone/thing underwater would feel somewhat weightless, even if it were inside a chamber of air underwater (which we know isn't true, people in submarines feel the same weight as if they were on land).

I think that since Joseph had never been in a submarine or never watched them on TV, etc. he may have thought that you would feel that same weightless feeling that you feel when you are swimming if you were in a submarine. That's the only way I can explain those bizarre passages.

Anyone who has been in a submarine (or watched one in a movie) knows that there are no issues telling up from down for the people inside.

Still, it is stupid beyond belief even for Joseph. People under the waterline in a boat have no trouble telling up from down and he should have known that. He just totally fell off the logical wagon here.
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Yobispo
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Re: Canonized Stupidity

Post by Yobispo » Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:24 am

D&C 7 - Joseph has an argument with Oliver about whether John "tarried" or died. He wins the argument by looking at the seer stone, seeing a parchment with John's handwriting on it, and the parchment answers the question in Joseph's favor, bing bang boom - Joseph is right.

D&C 8 - The time when Oliver wanted to translate, tried and it didn't work (I wonder why) but God told him through Joseph that he has a different gift, the gift of using the divining rod. In fact, God tells Oliver to remember the many times when his divining rod did work. How else could it work beside with the power of God? So basically God Almighty authorizes the use of divining rods. Which is also why the church has changed the words "gift of the sprout" to "gift of the rod" and then again to "gift of Aaron", which is just churchy-enough to sound like it has something to do with either scripture or Aaronic priesthood to not be as crazy as God blessing magic wands.

Those 2 sections, back-to-back no less, shows a God of treasure seers and backwater diviners. He also lets Satan rule the water...

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Hagoth
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Re: Canonized Stupidity

Post by Hagoth » Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:02 am

Korihor:
-He was arrested, bound and imprisoned for preaching. This was a GOOD thing, but when it happened earlier to Alma and Amulek it was a BAD thing.

-He was defiant in defending his beliefs before the authorities. This was a BAD thing, but when Alma and Amulek did it, it was a GOOD thing.

-He said he was fooled by an angel of the devil pretending to be an angel of God, who told him there is not God. WT living F?

-He is chastised for doing something reasonable; says he would believe in God if he had some evidence and asked to provide it. That's a BAD thing. Alma totally copped out by saying, "hey, there are stars and planets, so that proves everything I'm saying."

-So he is struck dumb and trampled to death.

-He is dumb but for some reason people have to write what they want to say to him. It clearly specifies that he has lost the power of speech but says nothing about hearing.

-He is cast out, forced to beg, and then trampled to death as punishment EVEN though he admitted the error of his ways and was repentant and asked Alma to pray for him.

Zeezrom:
Pretty much the same thing as Korihor, but in this case the people who listened to Alma and Amulek were burned to death before their eyes. The reason for Korihor's death was that he preached false doctrine and paid for it with his life and a promise that he would be dragged down to hell for it, even though he tried to repent. Zeezrom followed a similar pattern, but was just spat on and cast out when he tried to repent.

Women and children were burned to death because they believed the words of Alma and Amulek. The problem is that Alma and Amulek were also teaching false doctrine. After the innocents burned to death (supposedly for a good cause) the reason was clarified to Alma and Amulek by their persecutors who asked, "will ye preach again unto this people, that they shall be cast into a lake of fire and brimstone?" Yet, D&C explains that the idea of an eternal hell is just a scare tactic that God used to keep people in line, and that it shouldn't concern Harris enough to even think about not handing over his money. Alma and Amulek caused all of those people to die based on false doctrine, yet they emerged as the heroes of the story.
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Red Ryder
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Re: Canonized Stupidity

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:41 am

Religious underwear has to fall in this category.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Canonized Stupidity

Post by Mormorrisey » Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:01 am

The creation of an entire doctrine for what an "Elias" is, simply because Joseph had no clue Elias was Latin for Elijah.

Can't believe to this day I fell for it.
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Not Buying It
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Re: Canonized Stupidity

Post by Not Buying It » Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:03 am

How about canonized stupidity and racism at the same time? This list is courtesy of UTLM (http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/rac ... ements.htm):

Racial Statements in LDS Scriptures



Book of Mormon

1 Nephi 11:13 (Mary) ". . . she was exceedingly fair and white."

1 Nephi 12:23 (Prophecy of Lamanites after Christ) ". . . became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations."

1 Nephi 13:15 (Gentiles) ". . . they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people [Nephites] before they were slain."

2 Nephi 5:21 ". . . a sore cursing . . . as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."

2 Nephi 30:6 (Prophecy to Lamanites) ". . . scales of darkness shall begin to fall . . . they shall be a white and delightsome people." (Changed to pure and delightsome in 1981)

Jacob 3:5 (Lamanites cursed) ". . .whom ye hate because of their filthiness and the cursing which hath come upon their skins. . ."

Jacob 3:8-9 ". . .their skins will be whiter than yours . . . revile no more against them because of the darkness of their skins . . ."

Alma 3:6 ". . . skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion. . ."

Alma 3:8 (Cursed) ". . .that their seed might be distinguished from the seed of their brethren . . .that they might not mix . . ."

Alma 3:9 ". . . whosoever did mingle his seed with that of the Lamanites did bring the same curse upon his seed."

Alma 3:14 (Lamanites cursed) ". . . set a mark on them that they and their seed may be separated from thee and thy seed. . ."

Alma 3:19 (Amlicites cursed) ". . . brought upon themselves the curse ..."

Alma 23:18 ". . . [Lamanites] did open a correspondence with them [Nephites] and the curse of God did no more follow them."

3 Nephi 2:14-16 ". . . Lamanites who had united with the Nephites were numbered among the Nephites; And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites . . . became exceedingly fair . . ."

3 Nephi 19:25, 30 (Disciples) ". . . they were as white as the countenance and also the garments of Jesus; and behold the whiteness thereof did exceed all the whiteness . . . nothing upon earth so white as the whiteness thereof . . . they were white, even as Jesus."

Mormon 5:15 (Prophecy about Lamanites) ". . .shall become a dark, a filthy, and a loathsome people, beyond the description of that which ever hath been amongst us . . ."

Mormon 5:17 "They were once a delightsome people . . ."
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Hagoth
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Re: Canonized Stupidity

Post by Hagoth » Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:22 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:41 am
Religious underwear has to fall in this category.
Come to think of it, is that canonized in scripture or is it just cultural weirdness?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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1smartdodog
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Re: Canonized Stupidity

Post by 1smartdodog » Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:30 am

That you can have two armies of a million men. Logistically it would be impossible, not difficult but impossible to feed so many men on the move.

To make a million swords would take many years on a production scale not possible given the technology.

And then where do a million people go to the bathroom. Imagine 15 football stadiums full of people having to go with no modern facilities.

It all makes for a creative story but not at all possible, its Stupid.


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wtfluff
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Re: Canonized Stupidity

Post by wtfluff » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:11 pm

Not Buying It wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:03 am
How about canonized stupidity and racism at the same time? This list is courtesy of UTLM (http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/rac ... ements.htm):

Racial Statements in LDS Scriptures



Book of Mormon

1 Nephi 11:13 (Mary) ". . . she was exceedingly fair and white."

1 Nephi 12:23 (Prophecy of Lamanites after Christ) ". . . became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations."

1 Nephi 13:15 (Gentiles) ". . . they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people [Nephites] before they were slain."

2 Nephi 5:21 ". . . a sore cursing . . . as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."

2 Nephi 30:6 (Prophecy to Lamanites) ". . . scales of darkness shall begin to fall . . . they shall be a white and delightsome people." (Changed to pure and delightsome in 1981)

Jacob 3:5 (Lamanites cursed) ". . .whom ye hate because of their filthiness and the cursing which hath come upon their skins. . ."

Jacob 3:8-9 ". . .their skins will be whiter than yours . . . revile no more against them because of the darkness of their skins . . ."

Alma 3:6 ". . . skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion. . ."

Alma 3:8 (Cursed) ". . .that their seed might be distinguished from the seed of their brethren . . .that they might not mix . . ."

Alma 3:9 ". . . whosoever did mingle his seed with that of the Lamanites did bring the same curse upon his seed."

Alma 3:14 (Lamanites cursed) ". . . set a mark on them that they and their seed may be separated from thee and thy seed. . ."

Alma 3:19 (Amlicites cursed) ". . . brought upon themselves the curse ..."

Alma 23:18 ". . . [Lamanites] did open a correspondence with them [Nephites] and the curse of God did no more follow them."

3 Nephi 2:14-16 ". . . Lamanites who had united with the Nephites were numbered among the Nephites; And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites . . . became exceedingly fair . . ."

3 Nephi 19:25, 30 (Disciples) ". . . they were as white as the countenance and also the garments of Jesus; and behold the whiteness thereof did exceed all the whiteness . . . nothing upon earth so white as the whiteness thereof . . . they were white, even as Jesus."

Mormon 5:15 (Prophecy about Lamanites) ". . .shall become a dark, a filthy, and a loathsome people, beyond the description of that which ever hath been amongst us . . ."

Mormon 5:17 "They were once a delightsome people . . ."

Racism initially came to mind for me... But that documented list of Canonized racism from UTLM is EPIC!
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

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Red Ryder
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Re: Canonized Stupidity

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:44 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:22 am
Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:41 am
Religious underwear has to fall in this category.
Come to think of it, is that canonized in scripture or is it just cultural weirdness?
These ceremonies were revealed to Joseph Smith, and as they are not meant for the world in general, the details have not been published in works of scripture meant for the world in general, such as the Doctrine and Covenants.

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Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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wtfluff
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Re: Canonized Stupidity

Post by wtfluff » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:52 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:44 pm
Hagoth wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:22 am
Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:41 am
Religious underwear has to fall in this category.
Come to think of it, is that canonized in scripture or is it just cultural weirdness?
These ceremonies were revealed to Joseph Smith, and as they are not meant for the world in general, the details have not been published in works of scripture meant for the world in general, such as the Doctrine and Covenants.

#Sacred
Well... Is "The Handbook™" considered "Cannon?"

I'm pretty sure there are instructions in The Handbook™ that tell folks how to wear Magick Undies. [DryHeave]
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

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Rob4Hope
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Re: Canonized Stupidity

Post by Rob4Hope » Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:13 pm

From a more contemporary place, stuff like this makes me ROFL!!!


You think Bruce was tooting his own horn?


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Linked
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Re: Canonized Stupidity

Post by Linked » Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:18 pm

In light of the discussions sparked by Mike Lee's comments about the United States not being a democracy, I present the scripture that supports a theocracy over democracy. Just make sure it's the right God and prophet.

Mosiah 29:13: Therefore, if it were possible that you could have just men to be your kings, who would establish the laws of God, and judge this people according to his commandments, yea, if ye could have men for you kings who would do even as my father Benjamin did for this people - I say unto you, if this could always be the case then it would be expedient that ye should always have kings to rule over you.
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moksha
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Re: Canonized Stupidity

Post by moksha » Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:31 am

fetchface wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:57 am

I think that since Joseph had never been in a submarine or never watched them on TV, etc. he may have thought that you would feel that same weightless feeling that you feel when you are swimming if you were in a submarine. That's the only way I can explain those bizarre passages.
Excellent point.

I also have to wonder if the Moon Quakers spoken about by the Prophet Joseph are holding the prophesized White Horse captive, so it cannot send in its mail-in ballot for the election.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
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Hagoth
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Re: Canonized Stupidity

Post by Hagoth » Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:44 am

Rob4Hope wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:13 pm

You think Bruce was tooting his own horn?
I doubt McConkie would have recognized humility if it bit him on the ass.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Hagoth
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Re: Canonized Stupidity

Post by Hagoth » Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:46 am

Linked wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:18 pm
Mosiah 29:13: ...it would be expedient that ye should always have kings to rule over you.
Did that come from his Twitter feed?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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