Has anyone done a list of Joseph's wives and those who lived with him?

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jfro18
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Has anyone done a list of Joseph's wives and those who lived with him?

Post by jfro18 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:46 am

I was listening to the Sunstone History Podcast (which I would argue is a must listen podcast for anyone interested), and they were going through a lot of Joseph's wives and were commenting as it went about how many lived with him.

Just wondering if anyone ever put together a list of his wives and which ones lived with him, which ones were wives that recruited other wives, and which ones were parentless. Really seems like Joseph treated women like foster dogs - you bring them in and see if they're going to work, and if they do you claim them before someone else can, and if not they can go elsewhere. I know that seems harsh, but it literally was a mindset I had about getting a puppy earlier this year and one I know a lot of others do as well.

Anyway - it's a fascinating few episodes from them and Christopher C Smith is a great Mormon historian who never was actually Mormon...

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River Morgan2
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Re: Has anyone done a list of Joseph's wives and those who lived with him?

Post by River Morgan2 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:51 pm

The following Huffington Post article lists all of Joseph Smith's wives, gives a paragraph about them, and explains whether they were already married to a living husband, whether they were sisters with other of Joseph Smith's wives, or whether they were still teenagers.

Joseph Smith would have been a better profit of God if he could have kept his pants zipped (or buttoned or whatever) more often.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_6180184

River
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blazerb
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Re: Has anyone done a list of Joseph's wives and those who lived with him?

Post by blazerb » Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:19 pm

I think "In Sacred Loneliness" by Todd Compton given about as much information about all the wives as I've seen.

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Palerider
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Re: Has anyone done a list of Joseph's wives and those who lived with him?

Post by Palerider » Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:00 pm

I may be misinformed but I thought Emma was the only wife that actually lived with Joseph. I know he had two orphaned sisters that he and Emma cared for for awhile and he ended up marrying one or both but I didn't think they stayed in the Smith home much after that.

I probably need to brush up on this.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

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jfro18
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Re: Has anyone done a list of Joseph's wives and those who lived with him?

Post by jfro18 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:50 pm

Palerider wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:00 pm
I may be misinformed but I thought Emma was the only wife that actually lived with Joseph. I know he had two orphaned sisters that he and Emma cared for for awhile and he ended up marrying one or both but I didn't think they stayed in the Smith home much after that.

I probably need to brush up on this.
For a very brief time the Partridge sisters were married and living with Joseph after their second 'sham' wedding that Emma approved of.

But he married a lot of women who lived with him although I'm not sure if they were still living with him at that point or not.

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Palerider
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Re: Has anyone done a list of Joseph's wives and those who lived with him?

Post by Palerider » Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:11 pm

jfro18 wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:50 pm

For a very brief time the Partridge sisters were married and living with Joseph after their second 'sham' wedding that Emma approved of.

But he married a lot of women who lived with him although I'm not sure if they were still living with him at that point or not.
By the statement "living with him" are you saying that a number of women lived with Joseph and Emma, with Emma knowing that they were conjugal?

This I have never heard. I think Emma was only assenting to the Partridge sisters marriage with the understanding that it would be nonsexual.

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought the reason Emma was nearly ready to divorce Joseph in the end was because she despised plural marriage. Didn't she drive herself crazy trying to keep tabs on Joseph when he was sneaking around?

ETA: I remember reading that Joseph housed a few women at the Joseph Smith Mansion House. I didn't realize he had used it as a personal residence. But I thought Emma had demanded some of those women be thrown out.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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jfro18
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Re: Has anyone done a list of Joseph's wives and those who lived with him?

Post by jfro18 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:53 pm

Palerider wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:11 pm
By the statement "living with him" are you saying that a number of women lived with Joseph and Emma, with Emma knowing that they were conjugal?
The initial intent was to say 'living with him' as in saying that they lived at the Smith house while working there.

That includes at least a handful of people already and I am trying to tidy up a list of those.

For the Partridge sisters, they were chosen by Emma to marry Joseph in polygamy and I do not believe that Emma could've believed that would not include sex. They were talking about that on the sunstone history podcast that the moment the marriage was done, Emma was constantly watching Joseph and if he was out of sight she immediately looked to make sure he was not with either sister.

So I think she knew that polygamy would include sex, but obviously she couldn't get over Joseph having sex with these other women because she was just too selfish to understand the revelation from God. (/sarcasm)

But it seems like there's a good number of women that Joseph had working at the mansion that he then took as plural wives along with a number that were without parents. And then there are the few older wives he took that then acted as a liaison to JS to get more wives for him without putting JS in direct contact with the women until they were properly vetted by the other/older wives.

It gets more and more insane the deeper into the rabbit hole you go, and polygamy is no exception.

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Red Ryder
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Re: Has anyone done a list of Joseph's wives and those who lived with him?

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:36 am

I wrote this polygamy rap awhile back. My name is Joseph, I’m the King of Nauvoo!

https://newordermormon.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3423

There’s Fanny...🍆
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Hagoth
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Re: Has anyone done a list of Joseph's wives and those who lived with him?

Post by Hagoth » Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:10 am

Palerider wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:11 pm
ETA: I remember reading that Joseph housed a few women at the Joseph Smith Mansion House. I didn't realize he had used it as a personal residence. But I thought Emma had demanded some of those women be thrown out.
Apparently Eliza Snow lived there because there's a rumor that Emma got in a fight with her and pushed her down the stairs, causing her to lose Joseph's (also rumored) baby.

In a much later interview William Law said, “Emma complained about Joseph’s living with the L[awrence] girls, but not very violently.” (“The Law Interview,” The Daily Tribune: Salt Lake City, July 31, 1887.)

There were a lot of weird things going on between Joseph and Emma. For one thing, Emma was not permitted to have her temple endowment and sealing until after she agreed to polygamy, which is why something like 20 women were sealed to Joseph before her.

Things got pretty tense between Joseph and Emma, so much so that Brigham Young later stated in no uncertain terms in General Conference that Joseph accused Emma of poisoning his coffee, "He told here where she got the poison, and how she put it in a cup of coffee; said he 'You got that poison from so and so, and I drank it, but you could not kill me.' When it entered his stomach he went to the door and threw it off. he spoke to her in that council in a very severe manner, and she never said one word in reply. I have witnesses of this scene all around, who can testify that I am now telling the truth. Twice she undertook to kill him. (Brigham Young A5:8; Gen. Conf., 7 Oct. 1866). Also, Joseph Smith drank coffee!

Part of Emma’s eventual but short-lived approval of polygamy was contingent on a contractual agreement of financial security regardless of what happened to her husband. Joseph’s personal secretary William Clayton recorded that only hours after Emma initially rejected the polygamy revelation, “Joseph told me to deed all the unencumbered lots to Emma and the children. He appears much troubled about Emma.” Three days later, Clayton recorded: “Made Deed for 1/2 Steam Boat Maid of Iowa from Joseph to Emma. Also a Deed to Emma for over 60 city lots”(The Journals of William Clayton, Signature Books, 1995). William Law remembered that Emma confided to him in a conversation that probably occurred in the fall of 1843, “Joe and I have settled our troubles on the basis of equal rights.” (The Law Interview, The Daily Tribune: Salt Lake City, July 31, 1887).

To make it all even more weird, Joseph's aid-de-camp and land agent Joseph Jackson testified that Emma had asked to take a second husband as part of the settlement but that is the request that is rejected in D&C 132 as part of the promise that she would be "destroyed" for not obeying. Of course, we have no way of knowing for certain if that is what that verse in the D&C is talking about.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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jfro18
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Re: Has anyone done a list of Joseph's wives and those who lived with him?

Post by jfro18 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:14 am

Hagoth wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:10 am
To make it all even more weird, Joseph's aid-de-camp and land agent Joseph Jackson testified that Emma had asked to take a second husband as part of the settlement but that is the request that is rejected in D&C 132 as part of the promise that she would be "destroyed" for not obeying. Of course, we have no way of knowing for certain if that is what that verse in the D&C is talking about.
And the speculation to this is that Emma chose William Clayton to celestualize with, which makes sense given that Clayton wrote in his journal (May 29th 1843) that "This morning, President Joseph told me that he felt as though I was not treating him exactly right and asked if I had used any familiarity with Emma. I told him by no means and explained to his satisfaction"

Then Joseph Smith again seemed to approach Clayton about this issue on June 23rd: "President Joseph took me and conversed considerable concerning some delicate matters. Said Emma wanted to lay a snare for me. He told me last night of this and said he had felt troubled. He said Emma had treated him coldly and badly since I came, and he knew she was disposed to be revenged on him for some things. She thought that if he would indulge himself, she would, too. He cautioned me very kindly, for which I felt thankful"

It's hard to believe that this is not what Joseph was speaking about as he produced D&C 132 just a few weeks later in July 1843.

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2bizE
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Re: Has anyone done a list of Joseph's wives and those who lived with him?

Post by 2bizE » Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:56 am

Joseph and Emma had a few live-in helpers. Fanny Alger and others. Does anyone know if there was any of them he didn’t marry/have sex with or was it all of them?
~2bizE

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