RFM's bombshells

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Hagoth
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RFM's bombshells

Post by Hagoth » Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:48 pm

Anybody listen to the latest Mormonism Live? What do you think?

Spoiler: among other interesting historical tidbits, RFM comes to the conclusion that Joseph Fielding Smith cut out another First Vision story, besides the 1932 account written in Joseph's hand, and that is still presumably gathering dust in the vault. Remember, the first one was taped back into the letterbook only after word of it started getting around.

Here's the question I have. Who blew the whistle on JFS that made him decide to tape the 1832 account back into the book?

Another interesting note about the excised 1832 account is that there was an additional 8 sheets (16 pages) that were cut out and have never been identified or located. Possibly/probably also in the vault?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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jfro18
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Re: RFM's bombshells

Post by jfro18 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:11 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:48 pm
Here's the question I have. Who blew the whistle on JFS that made him decide to tape the 1832 account back into the book?

Another interesting note about the excised 1832 account is that there was an additional 8 sheets (16 pages) that were cut out and have never been identified or located. Possibly/probably also in the vault?
the Tanners got word of a "strange account of the first vision" account that leaked through a general authority, Levi Edgar Young.

So that put the pressure on although I'm sure there was a lot going on behind the scenes that led to it being taped back in.

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Hagoth
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Re: RFM's bombshells

Post by Hagoth » Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:12 pm

The Tanners were being as transparent as they knew how to be.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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jfro18
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Re: RFM's bombshells

Post by jfro18 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:38 pm

It certainly makes one wonder what happened to those other 16 pages in the letterbook and now what happened to the pages in the Joseph Knight journal that very well could be referencing an early account of the FV that wouldn't match the story as told today.

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Hagoth
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Re: RFM's bombshells

Post by Hagoth » Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:04 am

Here's an article with photos of the Miner's Hill cave. Unfortunately these guys dug away the front of the hillside with a backhoe, so it looks to me like a significant portion of the larger space toward the front of the cave is gone now. It was probably collapsed and would have been difficult or impossible to reclaim anyway.

https://archival.link/mormoncave/story
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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2bizE
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Re: RFM's bombshells

Post by 2bizE » Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:21 am

Hagoth wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:04 am
Here's an article with photos of the Miner's Hill cave. Unfortunately these guys dug away the front of the hillside with a backhoe, so it looks to me like a significant portion of the larger space toward the front of the cave is gone now. It was probably collapsed and would have been difficult or impossible to reclaim anyway.

https://archival.link/mormoncave/story
Apparently, the Spanish treasure is still in that hill as there is no record of Joseph finding it...and as truly as the gold plates are real gold the Spanish treasure must exist.
~2bizE

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Hagoth
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Re: RFM's bombshells

Post by Hagoth » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:30 pm

2bizE wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:21 am
Hagoth wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:04 am
Here's an article with photos of the Miner's Hill cave. Unfortunately these guys dug away the front of the hillside with a backhoe, so it looks to me like a significant portion of the larger space toward the front of the cave is gone now. It was probably collapsed and would have been difficult or impossible to reclaim anyway.

https://archival.link/mormoncave/story
Apparently, the Spanish treasure is still in that hill as there is no record of Joseph finding it...and as truly as the gold plates are real gold the Spanish treasure must exist.
Maybe it's like the Spanish silver mine that Joseph located in Pennsylvania. Unfortunately it (if I remember correctly) a mile deep - too deep to dig. You have to ask yourself how the Spaniards were able to get to it centuries earlier.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Palerider
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Re: RFM's bombshells

Post by Palerider » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:44 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:30 pm
Unfortunately it (if I remember correctly) a mile deep - too deep to dig. You have to ask yourself how the Spaniards were able to get to it centuries earlier.
STOP!!!

Stop asking these questions that have a bit of reasoning behind them. You're just trying to make trouble.

It reminds me of the time the Sr. Smiths tried to take up a collection so that Joseph could go visit his family to see how they were doing in Pennsylvania.
One of the neighbor ladies who knew of his possessing a seer stone reasonably asked, "Well, why doesn't he just look in his stone to see how they're doing?"🤔

Lucy Mack was speechless. :shock:
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

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Hagoth
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Re: RFM's bombshells

Post by Hagoth » Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:53 pm

Palerider wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:44 pm
One of the neighbor ladies who knew of his possessing a seer stone reasonably asked, "Well, why doesn't he just look in his stone to see how they're doing?"🤔
Hilarious. Or look in his stone and find some coins, like he claimed to be able to do for other people. Apparently the stone was really good at finding feathers and pins. Not so good for things of actual value.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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wtfluff
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Re: RFM's bombshells

Post by wtfluff » Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:18 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:53 pm
Palerider wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:44 pm
One of the neighbor ladies who knew of his possessing a seer stone reasonably asked, "Well, why doesn't he just look in his stone to see how they're doing?"🤔
Hilarious. Or look in his stone and find some coins, like he claimed to be able to do for other people. Apparently the stone was really good at finding feathers and pins. Not so good for things of actual value.
Along the same line of thinking: Why doesn't someone on the Board of Directors of LD$-Inc. turn on the Magick Rock™ and get to some Prophet-ing, or Seer-ing, or Revelate-ing? I guess they're too busy lying, obfuscating, and victim-blaming?
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

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jfro18
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Re: RFM's bombshells

Post by jfro18 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:19 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:53 pm
Hilarious. Or look in his stone and find some coins, like he claimed to be able to do for other people. Apparently the stone was really good at finding feathers and pins. Not so good for things of actual value.
This is really the easiest way to look at it. There's absolutely no good response for a believer who claims Joseph Smith had power in the stone to find Martin Harris' pin when you then reply it was good at finding things he had control over but failed every time when he didn't.

But it won't matter as most believers would say that the stone wasn't going to work early because it was merely training him on how to "choose to believe" that the stone worked so that it would when it mattered.

Keewon
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Re: RFM's bombshells

Post by Keewon » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:25 pm

2bizE wrote:Apparently, the Spanish treasure is still in that hill as there is no record of Joseph finding it...and as truly as the gold plates are real gold the Spanish treasure must exist.
That gold's still slippery, I understand.

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