Did Natasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

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Rob4Hope
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Did Natasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Rob4Hope » Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:12 pm

saw a discussion by John Dehlin. I take it this lady got Exed?

Thoughts?

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wtfluff
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by wtfluff » Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:44 pm

I'm pretty sure her "hearing" isn't until this coming Sunday, so she hasn't been disciplined... Yet.
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Rob4Hope
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Rob4Hope » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:12 pm

I looked on Reddit. There are several people who are watching this. If they EX her, it will cause ripples. Bill Reels EX caused some ripples, and so will this lady.

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jfro18
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by jfro18 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:12 pm

I don't know much about Natasha -- is she an active, believing Mormon? I was under the impression that she was mentally out and trying to find a way to help the community.

This is mostly surprising to me because I don't think NHP has been trying to get people out of the church, so to discipline someone for providing sex advice is just insane.

The Mormon church's obsession with sex really is something to behold.

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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Rob4Hope » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:24 pm

Part of the interview with John Dehlin (I didn't see it all) covered some of the sex issues. I've read on Netasha's blog that she has tried, unsuccessfully, to find the LDS position on masturbation. There doesn't appear to be an "official" position on this. Therefore, as part of her work as a mental health counselor, she seeks to help clients become accepting of their own sexuality. If that involves masturbation, then so be it -- and WITHOUT guilt I might add.

Part of the sex questioning put to her called this practice into question. And so to me, this means that its leadership roulette. Someone in that leadership probably has read Miracle of Forgiveness and is using that for doctrinal determination.

But truth is, I think her leadership was directed to take action by TSCC and Perfecting the Saints Committee.

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Mormorrisey » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:51 pm

Yeah, this one is pretty nuts, and unlike most of the high profile excommunications (Bill Reel's, John Dehlin's, etc) this one seems just so INCOMPETENT. Like, are you seriously holding a membership council without really working with the person to "repent?" Or over such nebulous "doctrine" as masturbation, of all things? I think this SP is just a moron, I can't believe the upper level leaders are behind this. But then again, the incompetence from on high has been rather breathtaking, really, since Hinckley died.

If you really want a good read (I won't link the Facebook page, I'm still not sure of the rules for doing that here on NOM) but take a look at the Mormon Stories Facebook page, and read the letter that Mormon therapists such as Jennifer Finlayson Fife, Maxine Hanks and others have written to the stake president. It was just sensational, and if this doesn't warrant some higher level intervention to tell the SP to cool it, I don't know what will work. It's a pretty heartfelt, well-researched and argued defence of the work that Natasha was doing.

This one is particularly brutal, if the SP goes through with it. You're seriously ex'ing someone for doing their friggin' JOB??!! Just crazy.
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by jfro18 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:24 pm

Mormorrisey wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:51 pm
If you really want a good read (I won't link the Facebook page, I'm still not sure of the rules for doing that here on NOM) but take a look at the Mormon Stories Facebook page, and read the letter that Mormon therapists such as Jennifer Finlayson Fife, Maxine Hanks and others have written to the stake president. It was just sensational, and if this doesn't warrant some higher level intervention to tell the SP to cool it, I don't know what will work. It's a pretty heartfelt, well-researched and argued defence of the work that Natasha was doing.

This one is particularly brutal, if the SP goes through with it. You're seriously ex'ing someone for doing their friggin' JOB??!! Just crazy.
The best part about the church is that they typically don't back down because they know they've already caused a stir and don't want to be seen as giving into public pressure.

OTOH, this will absolutely blow up if they excommunicate her because of the points mentioned above. This is not about someone trying to take people away from the church, but about trying to help members feel healthier about sex as the church continues to turn us all into infants and even feel guilty for being normal humans.

Why they pick the fights they do I will never understand.

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Red Ryder
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:40 pm

Pretty dumb but expected.

She’s semi-famous in the Mormon internet community and they don’t seem to like any competition.

I seriously wonder if any of the GA’s and their respective spouses have ever had recreational sex. With the time constraints of Mormonism, the draconian attitudes, and guys like Bednar I have to doubt they have.

When will the church stop hurting their own members?
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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moksha
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by moksha » Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:17 pm

This is a sad turn of events when Elders get ruffled by secular knowledge from a professional.

Apostacy can happen when lay leaders bungle obedience training:

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Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
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Not Buying It
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Not Buying It » Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:52 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:40 pm
Pretty dumb but expected.

She’s semi-famous in the Mormon internet community and they don’t seem to like any competition.

I seriously wonder if any of the GA’s and their respective spouses have ever had recreational sex. With the time constraints of Mormonism, the draconian attitudes, and guys like Bednar I have to doubt they have.

When will the church stop hurting their own members?
You make a good point about not liking competition. But particularly from women - I wonder how much of it is a little bit of a smackdown on a woman who needs to be reminded men are in charge in the Church.

Is it not bizarre that in 2021 there is a major American religion that doesn't allow women the same privileges as men? I guess the Catholic Church is much bigger and just as sexist. Religion is just weird.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by blazerb » Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:31 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:40 pm
Pretty dumb but expected.

She’s semi-famous in the Mormon internet community and they don’t seem to like any competition.

I seriously wonder if any of the GA’s and their respective spouses have ever had recreational sex. With the time constraints of Mormonism, the draconian attitudes, and guys like Bednar I have to doubt they have.

When will the church stop hurting their own members?
When I was in grad school, we used one of the standard texts in a course. Everyone knew it was a bad textbook. One day, there was a discussion of this textbook. One of the older professors said they had to use it. "I learned from that textbook. You have to learn from that textbook." He said it with a smile, but that really is the attitude that kept that book in print.

I wonder how much of the GA's attitudes about sex are like this. "I felt guilty for this behavior. You have to feel guilty for this behavior." Evidence that the church's teachings don't help people be happy are a threat.

I worry about members who think they can contribute to the LDS community and help people. As you note, when the GA's feel competition, they will assert their rights to establish who gets to be a part of the community.

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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Yobispo » Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:22 am

This one is particularly baffling. She doesn't bash the church. She doesn't encourage people to leave. Her local leaders haven't tried to engage with her before pushing for a court (I don't care what they call it). Her local leaders aren't local. Church discipline is supposed to originate locally, but like others this is obviously starting from the SCMC. And unlike others, this one centers around issues that fall into her professional ethics, for which she is trained and licensed, unlike writing history books or running a podcast.

I thought that once this news hit they would back down because some local leader was going big, trying to get his own red chair. But now I think this has all the hallmarks of a top-down order. They could still pull back, but it looks like she's headed for a court. I pray it gets recorded and broadcast.

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jfro18
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by jfro18 » Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:25 am

I listened to her Mormon Stories interview as I worked this morning and I cannot believe how stupid the church is being here.

With other high profile excommunications (John Dehlin, Jeremy Runnells, Bill Reel) they were pretty much begging to be ex'ed, but here she is absolutely not trying to undermine the church outside of saying that their teachings on sex are unhealthy.

I cannot believe they don't back down here - I know they do not like to cave to social pressure, but this whole thing is an unforced error and at some point they have to realize the bad press that will come down on them if they follow through.

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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Corsair » Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:03 am

I met Natasha at Sunstone and she diplomatically keeps her beliefs to herself. But she is and "active" Mormon even if the "believing" part is not publicly defined. Part of her professional ethics as a counselor would require that she not put her beliefs on patients and keeping her testimony details under wraps would support that. But Sister Helfer-Parker does openly support wherever you feel your testimony needs to land.

She is very easy to talk to if you ever meet her. She pointed me to the Mormon Mental Health Association some time back and that was very helpful when I was finding a therapist for a family member.

This story is far from over and I am confused why the LDS church cannot see the writing on the wall about fallout from this disciplinary council.

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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:53 am

Corsair wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:03 am
This story is far from over and I am confused why the LDS church cannot see the writing on the wall about fallout from this disciplinary council.
Most members won’t notice or care. Battle lines are drawn the moment anyone steps out of sync with the brethren.

Here’s a quick decision tree for excommunication events.

Does the member have a following? Yes
Are they in line with the FP? No

Excommunicate

I just hope the wiki page of excommunicated members puts her under H in the alphabet listing.
She’ll be in great company.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego ... day_Saints

H
Isaac C. Haight
James J. Hamula
James D. Harmston
Elias L. T. Harrison
Glenn Helzer
Wild Bill Hickman
Mark Hofmann
Helmuth Hübener
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by wtfluff » Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:39 pm

Prophetic Prediction stolen from "some other" inter-web message-board-type-thingy: "They" ("Mr. big and important" Steak President?) will simply disfellowship her. That way "Mr. big and important" gets to stand his ground, and "make his point" without actually stripping Natasha of any of her fake "blessings" of membership. (And LD$-Inc. looks slightly less cult-y.)

This happened with an former bishop acquaintance of mine. "They" went through the entire high-council kangaroo-court with him and then handed him the "disfellowship" card. He basically laughed aboot this; But predicted that this might be the way forward with these types of situations.

I haven't listened to any of the podcasts, etc. but this does sound like one of the stupidest examples of TCOTPOTCOJCOL-d$ "discipline" that has popped up. Literally attempting to "punish" someone who is simply doing their job. Le-Sigh...
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

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alas
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by alas » Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:11 pm

First point, she divorced and no longer uses her ex’s name, so drop the Parker. Just Netasha Helfer.

Second point. OMG. Do they realize the position this puts every LDS social worker, psychologist, FMC, addiction counselor and any mental health worker in? (Insert l-o-n-g rant about the professional ethics to do mental health, NOT religion that all mental health workers are taught (except those who do “conversion therapy and they have violated their professional ethics since 1972) OMG.

Third point. Stupid, stupid, stupid. (Insert long rant about what kind of position this puts all mental health experts in) kind of the same as demanding doctors harm patients or get in trouble with the church. Nelson would get it if he was put in a position of violating his Hippocratic oath or get excommunicated and he of course would excommunicate the person who suggested such an outrage. Or how about a religion that wanted car mechanics to put 1 cup of sugar in the gas tank? Yeah, we would have a bunch of mechanics leaving such a church. But because she deals in s. e. x. They think they can excommunicate her for following her professions best practice ethics?


I could go on, but I will spare y’all from reading it.

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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Reuben » Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:22 pm

Mormorrisey wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:51 pm
If you really want a good read (I won't link the Facebook page, I'm still not sure of the rules for doing that here on NOM) but take a look at the Mormon Stories Facebook page, and read the letter that Mormon therapists such as Jennifer Finlayson Fife, Maxine Hanks and others have written to the stake president. It was just sensational, and if this doesn't warrant some higher level intervention to tell the SP to cool it, I don't know what will work. It's a pretty heartfelt, well-researched and argued defence of the work that Natasha was doing.

This one is particularly brutal, if the SP goes through with it. You're seriously ex'ing someone for doing their friggin' JOB??!! Just crazy.
Well, what if you're a licensed, professional hitman or stripper? Those are jobs.

/apologistmode

Er, yeah. This one reminds me of the church's attempted excommunication of KiwiMormon. She ended up leaving anyway. An attempt at spiritual execution for apostasy can't really make someone on the margins feel more like they belong, can it?
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Reuben » Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:32 pm

alas wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:11 pm
Third point. Stupid, stupid, stupid. (Insert long rant about what kind of position this puts all mental health experts in) kind of the same as demanding doctors harm patients or get in trouble with the church. Nelson would get it if he was put in a position of violating his Hippocratic oath or get excommunicated and he of course would excommunicate the person who suggested such an outrage. Or how about a religion that wanted car mechanics to put 1 cup of sugar in the gas tank? Yeah, we would have a bunch of mechanics leaving such a church. But because she deals in s. e. x. They think they can excommunicate her for following her professions best practice ethics?
They think sexual morality is exclusively their territory.

If they thought car maintenance and medicine was exclusively their territory, and putting sugar in the gas tank or violating a Hippocratic oath tended to blow up in people's faces only years later, you can bet your sweet booty they would sacrifice the most wayward Mormon mechanics and doctors to keep their influence over the rest.

Sacrifice. It's what Jesus would do.
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

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Angel
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Angel » Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:36 pm

For anyone from Kansas, or just spread the word... I spent a weekend with her at a Mormon Stories retreat (with TBM husband at the time). My then-TBM husband could not handle anyone at MS except Natasha, that was the one person there he was impressed with and therefore a lifesaver for me. Hubbie is now out of the cult, and I am thankful to Natasha for putting a professional face to the group.

I blame the unhealthy purity beliefs of the church, and unprofessional "addiction recovery groups" as leading to the abuse of kids that led me to leave the church. (13 page letter written to me by abuser also blamed the church for ignoring, enabling, excusing, and belittling his behavior - with no one able to deal with it correctly through years and years and years of his problem - from his childhood.)

The church really really needs to get a healthy perspective on sexuality. Kids are being abused because of it. Marriages are falling apart because of it. Adultery etc. etc. - I agree, masturbation would alleviate soooo many problems.
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Did your marriage fail because of the unhealthy views of purity and sexuality in the church? Well, let the church continue to make your life and relationships unfulfilling and miserable so that you will continue to feel like ** and rely on the church for "support".

You cannot make this stuff up...
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