Did Natasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

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alas
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by alas » Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:22 pm

You know, I am realizing that the idea of axing (my spell checker doesn’t like “ex-ing” so “axing” is good enough) a MFC for applying behavioral and scientific best practices in her professional life and even teaching about the scientific approach to sexuality, is bothering me more than any of the past excommunications.

Say, with Kate Kelly, she should know that advocating for ordination of women, no matter how sweetly you ask the men in charge, it is going to get you excommunicated. But this is different.

It could be me. OK, I have never gone on a speaking tour or done a podcast with J Dehlin, and I never would because *personality* but I have gone into public schools and said that “any church that tells you that if you survive rape, then you didn’t fight hard enough, is WRONG!” See, when I worked at a rape crisis center one thing I did was go into high schools when requested and do a presentation on rape. I would talk about some of the myths about rape, like that what the girl is wearing “causes it” and I would flat out say that many of the myths about rape are taught by religion. Sure, I didn’t name Mormons, but h*ll, I quoted the YW lesson manual and said that flat out they are teaching lies. I just never had anyone inform my SP what I was teaching.

And, you know, I have no where to process this in real life. So, maybe you poor NOMies are going to get tired of me.

Anybody have a punching bag with Rusty N face on it? Can I borrow it?

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alas
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by alas » Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:23 pm

jfro18 wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:09 pm
alas wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:54 pm
And in the places where your counselor was reacting, I would have been open about my reaction, with something like, “is that really OK with you?” And then I would have dug deeper into how that made you feel. Even if it took me saying “I want to explore that a little more because I am not comfortable with a religion that___________.” Now, if it is honestly OK with you, then I support you with that in whatever way you need.
I think that's about what she did. She would kind of have that look like "are you serious" and then she would ask how that made me feel and how that impacted my marriage being in a mixed-faith marriage.

I've only talked to three people about the church that haven't ever been a part of it because it's such a weird thing for me, but when I have it's just amazing the reactions I get. The current issue with Natasha will probably let more and more people see just how backwards they still are if they're dumb enough to actually excommunicate her.
Good counselor. Recommend her to anyone in your area.

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jfro18
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by jfro18 » Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:58 pm

alas wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:22 pm
You know, I am realizing that the idea of axing (my spell checker doesn’t like “ex-ing” so “axing” is good enough) a MFC for applying behavioral and scientific best practices in her professional life and even teaching about the scientific approach to sexuality, is bothering me more than any of the past excommunications.
Agree 1000%

On Twitter I mentioned that this one is so different than the others. Think of the other recent high profile excommunications:
John Dehlin
Kate Kelly
Jeremy Runnells
Bill Reel
Sam Young

They were all actively talking about problems with the church and building an audience in the process. While I won't say they were "asking to be ex'ed," the reality is that they knew they were pushing it until the rubber band broke.

From what I can tell Natasha was not questioning the church's teachings or leaders *beyond her field of expertise.* It would be like excommunicating a geneticist for teaching that DNA shows Native Americans came from Asia because the science is clear that they did not come from Jerusalem.

It's different and it's why I cannot believe they are choosing to pick this fight in the year 2021. It's absolutely insane.

alas wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:22 pm
Good counselor. Recommend her to anyone in your area.
I'm in an area with almost no Mormons, but I absolutely would especially because now she's aware of a lot of the baggage that comes with it. My wife hated her, largely because she would ask questions about certain things and especially about how she identifies in the world and church. It did not go over well and I think she went 4-5 times and just stopped going. The therapist wasn't telling her to separate, but was asking us both how we see each other's identities vs how we see our own.

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DPRoberts
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by DPRoberts » Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:35 pm

alas wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:22 pm

Anybody have a punching bag with Rusty N face on it? Can I borrow it?
I don't have a punching bag, but I do have a spare copy of The Miracle of Forgiveness. My other copy is doing duty as a backstop for indoor pellet gun shooting. I would be happy to send the other to whomever might get similar therapeutic value from it.
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or cease to be honest. -anon
The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. -Max Born

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DPRoberts
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by DPRoberts » Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:43 pm

Fifi de la Vergne wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:40 am
Mormorrisey wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:18 am
Edit to add: Given what Hawkins has said here, that he had a prepared statement, I'm starting to think this is not just a stupid local leader being stupid. Once again, the church is drawing lines that they don't need to draw. And it will end as badly as the 2015 policy of exclusion debacle, especially when they reverse themselves in a few years because of the backlash regarding this stupid court o' love.
The thing that stuck out for me in the WP article, which I must have missed elsewhere, is that Helfer is living in SLC now, but it's her former stake president who has brought the court. How does that work? If she's in SLC and he's in Kansas, how is he still her "local" leader? Also, her husband, whom she is in the process of divorcing, was a work colleague of said stake president.

The whole thing stinks to high heaven.
Salt Lake Tribune wrote:While Helfer may have relocated, the church’s General Handbook allows male priesthood holders to retain jurisdiction for unlimited periods of time if they have a “serious concern” about a member.
Didn't Kate Kelly also get dragged across the country for her court o' love? Add in the personal connection of the SP with the ex and this feels like vindictiveness writ large.
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or cease to be honest. -anon
The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. -Max Born

Cnsl1
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Cnsl1 » Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:22 am

This case really bothers me and I'm curious to hear the result.

I'm also curious as to what would happen if Ms. Helfer refused to travel across two states--presumably on her own dime--to defend herself. Why in the hell can a stake pres from an area she resided in over two years ago have authority to make her come back to face a trial? This isn't a criminal case. If that SP has concerns, what's so hard about passing it to her current SP and not worrying about it anymore? Does the handbook delineate handling the concerns at the location of the priesthood accuser? How much of this was pushed by her ex husband?

The whole matter stinks but maybe some positives will come from it.

Or maybe more courts? I signed the public letter of support for Natasha.

And thanks for your posts on this topic, Alas. I agree.

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Rob4Hope
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Rob4Hope » Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:05 am

DPRoberts wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:35 pm
I don't have a punching bag, but I do have a spare copy of The Miracle of Forgiveness. My other copy is doing duty as a backstop for indoor pellet gun shooting. I would be happy to send the other to whomever might get similar therapeutic value from it.
The MOF is such a devastating book isn't it? If I recollect, it says you are in a worse place being excommunicated from the church than you are if you were dead. Something like that.

The one section I remember well is Kimball's rehash of the Prodigal Son story. In Kimball's position, the prodigal got to come back to the family, but his inheritance was lost for ever....Worlds Without End! And since this birthright was paralleled Celestial Salvation, it opened up questions of the true efficacy of repentance. Then Kimball uses phrases like: "Sins of this nature seem to be among the list of those that may be forgiven..."

This language, and the fact that the blasting of sin constitutes the majority of the book, with only a small section being applied to forgiveness, it seems like the MOF is misnamed. It should be named: "The Agony and Permanent Destruction of Sin".

That book did a number on me. It caused serious emotional and personal pain, even existential pain that was surpassed in my life ONLY by learning that TSCC was full of sh!t and lies. That one takes the cake.

Of course the church would never disavow that book, since its a staple still used by so many......

What destruction...

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blazerb
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by blazerb » Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:45 pm

Cnsl1 wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:22 am
How much of this was pushed by her ex husband?
You ask some good questions. I do want to chime in that she reports that her ex-husband has been very supportive of her and, I believe, will be a witness in her defense.

Cnsl1
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Cnsl1 » Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:01 pm

blazerb wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:45 pm
Cnsl1 wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:22 am
How much of this was pushed by her ex husband?
You ask some good questions. I do want to chime in that she reports that her ex-husband has been very supportive of her and, I believe, will be a witness in her defense.
That's good to hear

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2bizE
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by 2bizE » Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:34 pm

I bet they don’t offer a ruling tonight. I bet they will send her a letter in a few days with their decision after they consult with their appointed 70.
~2bizE

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jfro18
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by jfro18 » Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:04 pm

2bizE wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:34 pm
I bet they don’t offer a ruling tonight. I bet they will send her a letter in a few days with their decision after they consult with their appointed 70.
Wasn't Sam Young around 2-3 weeks after the meeting?

I assume this will be at least a few weeks unless they give her a more clear time-frame?

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Mormorrisey » Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:28 pm

So everyone is busy tonight, and I decided to just try to sneak in a glance at the vigil for Natasha to see what was going on. Apparently, Natasha's computer wasn't working properly, so she wanted to use her phone to access her notes. They were so worried that she would record the council, they demanded she hand over her phone to them - she refused, and so the council was cancelled. And apparently they were so worried about the vigil people that cops were called, and three cop cars were on the scene. It was at that point that John Dehlin shut off the live stream.

Unbelievable. They made her travel all that way, and then cancelled because Natasha had the balls not to play the game their way. This is getting even more pathetic, with their control games.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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jfro18
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by jfro18 » Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:32 pm

Absolutely insane... from Anthony Miller:
Update:
Natasha’s pre-approved witnesses (including active members of the Church) were not allowed into the building to use the restroom.
Natasha had all her notes on her phone with the remarks she wanted to share, and the Stake President required that she surrender her phone to them during the Council.
Because she would not surrender her phone, she was not allowed to participate in the Council.
Then, 3 police squad cars showed up to escort everyone off the premises of the Stake Center.
It's like the church is purposefully going out of its way to look as bad as possible throughout this entire process. Just insane.

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Mormorrisey » Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:40 pm

jfro18 wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:32 pm
Absolutely insane... from Anthony Miller:
Update:
Natasha’s pre-approved witnesses (including active members of the Church) were not allowed into the building to use the restroom.
Natasha had all her notes on her phone with the remarks she wanted to share, and the Stake President required that she surrender her phone to them during the Council.
Because she would not surrender her phone, she was not allowed to participate in the Council.
Then, 3 police squad cars showed up to escort everyone off the premises of the Stake Center.
It's like the church is purposefully going out of its way to look as bad as possible throughout this entire process. Just insane.
What kind of life do we have, jfro, that we're giving live updates to this? I'm starting to get depressed. :lol:
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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jfro18
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by jfro18 » Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:06 pm

Mormorrisey wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:40 pm
What kind of life do we have, jfro, that we're giving live updates to this? I'm starting to get depressed. :lol:
It's been a long time since I've had a life. :lol:

I only happened to see it as Anthony posted on Facebook - I wasn't watching the live feeds or anything as DW would not appreciate that as entertaining as they might be.

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moksha
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by moksha » Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:34 am

Bad deeds are best done behind closed doors by gentlemen dressed in suits with BYU ties. There apparently are no news stories on this that have appeared on Google.

This meeting was a mere formality. The decision had already been made at Church HQ.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

Reuben
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Reuben » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:07 am

jfro18 wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:32 pm
Absolutely insane... from Anthony Miller:
Update:
Natasha’s pre-approved witnesses (including active members of the Church) were not allowed into the building to use the restroom.
Natasha had all her notes on her phone with the remarks she wanted to share, and the Stake President required that she surrender her phone to them during the Council.
Because she would not surrender her phone, she was not allowed to participate in the Council.
Then, 3 police squad cars showed up to escort everyone off the premises of the Stake Center.
It's like the church is purposefully going out of its way to look as bad as possible throughout this entire process. Just insane.
I wonder what they're afraid of. Public shame? Losing control of public perception (not realizing they never had it)? Did they expect the people at the vigil to turn destructive or violent? Or were the vigil participants not leaving when they declared it was over?

This is a bit weird.
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

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blazerb
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by blazerb » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:53 am

Reuben wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:07 am
I wonder what they're afraid of. Public shame? Losing control of public perception (not realizing they never had it)? Did they expect the people at the vigil to turn destructive or violent? Or were the vigil participants not leaving when they declared it was over?

This is a bit weird.
I also wonder if the SP was on the phone with Kirton McKonkie or Public Affairs to decide what to do. Would the SP have just panicked and called the police?

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Red Ryder
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:13 am

I’m embarrassed to be associated with the church in any form.

Give us your phone!

Um.... no?

Cancelled! Cancelled, call the cops!!

A bunch of grown ass men hiding behind a billion dollar corporation who can’t even implement their own “disciplinary rules” due to a phone in the room?

What a fetching joke.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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blazerb
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by blazerb » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:32 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:13 am
A bunch of grown ass men hiding behind a billion dollar corporation who can’t even implement their own “disciplinary rules” due to a phone in the room?
The author of XKCD likes to move the grouping of phrases like "grown ass men" from "grown-ass men" to "grown ass-men."

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