Did Natasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

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jfro18
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by jfro18 » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:45 am

They're cowards.

They wanted to ex Natasha and make sure she didn't record the meeting, because they don't want their words getting out because they come off so cult-like.

So they booted her because they figure that if she was using her phone to access notes that she would use it to record them, which I am sure she was going to do.

Why they refused to let the witnesses use the restroom I don't know - were they afraid they were going to put wires in their clothes? That's the only reason I can think of.

But really it's not difficult - they were afraid that she would record it and they don't want it to get out because it makes them look like a frontier sex cult stuck in the 1840s.

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Red Ryder
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:10 am

jfro18 wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:45 am
But really it's not difficult - they were afraid that she would record it and they don't want it to get out because it makes them look like a frontier sex cult stuck in the 1840s.
Or worse... Scientologists. :lol:

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blazerb
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by blazerb » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:14 am

jfro18 wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:45 am
They're cowards.

They wanted to ex Natasha and make sure she didn't record the meeting, because they don't want their words getting out because they come off so cult-like.

So they booted her because they figure that if she was using her phone to access notes that she would use it to record them, which I am sure she was going to do.

Why they refused to let the witnesses use the restroom I don't know - were they afraid they were going to put wires in their clothes? That's the only reason I can think of.

But really it's not difficult - they were afraid that she would record it and they don't want it to get out because it makes them look like a frontier sex cult stuck in the 1840s.
I think she was sincere that she would not record the meeting.

They did not trust her, though. By not telling her that she would not be allowed to have her phone in the room, they though they could prevent her from sneaking another recording device in. In any case, I don't get it. Enough of these councils have been recorded that people already know what happens. There is almost nothing to gain by hiding the proceeding.

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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:20 pm

It’s a control thing.

Their rules.
Their regulations.
Their dog and pony show.

I support Natasha’s actions and would have walked in similar circumstances. She could have stayed and played by their silly rules. Trying to defend herself which in of itself is silly considered the outcome is obviously already pre-determined.

The church is anything but compassionate. Anything but....
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Just This Guy » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:32 pm

I'm wonder if they tried to work with her at all. She said the reason for her phone was because she needed her notes off it because her printer wouldn't work earlier that day. If the stake were reasonable, they could offer to let her e-mail those notes to the Exec Sec who could then easily print off a copy for her. She gets her notes and they get their control and "privacy."

If they didn't offer, then the stake were fools for missing a very simple way of de-escalating the situation. If they did offer and she declined, then it is more reasonable that she was in fact trying to secretly record it and she would be in the wrong.

That being said, using a cell phone to record in such a situation is kind of a joke. There are other methods of recording that don't involve a cell. At a minimal, use a 2nd phone. Offer the first as a show and then don't tell them about the 2nd that is the real recorder.

Wasn't the recording of Bill Reel's kangaroo court done by a high councilman? It's not the victim they need to be watching. It's everyone else.
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Rob4Hope » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:48 pm

I never heard if they rescheduled.

If they did and again they think to force her to travel, that is abusive.

It seems to me that Netash want's to stay LDS -- or why would she make the effort to be to the meeting? And they canceled it?

I can understand why the men would be frightened about her recording things -- because that would add some accountability to those men? You know, if they are bringing Netasha in....why don't THEY record it and post it themselves? Duh! (Someone above indicated that Bill's court was recorded by one of the counselors or something).

Anyway,...this has and is becoming more and more a High Profile council. I'm laughing on my side. Not because I am insensitive to Netash's feelings -- please don't get that impression because its not intended -- but because that action by the Stake Presidency insures this will get more coverage, and perhaps a news agency might show up for the next court (if there is on)?

This is a way for the church to, in the interest of exercising control, provoke coverage they would rather not have...

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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by blazerb » Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:37 pm

Just This Guy wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:32 pm
I'm wonder if they tried to work with her at all. She said the reason for her phone was because she needed her notes off it because her printer wouldn't work earlier that day. If the stake were reasonable, they could offer to let her e-mail those notes to the Exec Sec who could then easily print off a copy for her. She gets her notes and they get their control and "privacy."

If they didn't offer, then the stake were fools for missing a very simple way of de-escalating the situation. If they did offer and she declined, then it is more reasonable that she was in fact trying to secretly record it and she would be in the wrong.

That being said, using a cell phone to record in such a situation is kind of a joke. There are other methods of recording that don't involve a cell. At a minimal, use a 2nd phone. Offer the first as a show and then don't tell them about the 2nd that is the real recorder.

Wasn't the recording of Bill Reel's kangaroo court done by a high councilman? It's not the victim they need to be watching. It's everyone else.
If I understood the video from Mormon Stories correctly, she said that they did make the offer. She declined for two reasons. First, they were imposing rules that were not set out beforehand. Second, her notes had information for herself and no one else had a right to see them. I believe she was sincere, but I'm a trusting sort. As you point out, if she wanted to record, it would have been easy enough to sneak another device into the room.

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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Stig » Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:08 pm

This thing turned into a circus in a big hurry. I understand that she is at a terrible low in her life, but using a public forum (Facebook) to vent and process everything going on hasn't really helped her, in my opinion. Trying to follow some of her posts today was...interesting.

The church did absolutely nothing right in this whole fiasco, but I wish she had been a little more thoughtful in her comments today. That being said, anger is a STRONG emotion and I get that it can result in otherwise rational judgment being thrown out the window, so I'm not super critical of her; just think it could have gone a little better. Of course, I'm playing the role of arm-chair quarterback, so there's that...
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by jfro18 » Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:42 pm

Stig wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:08 pm
This thing turned into a circus in a big hurry. I understand that she is at a terrible low in her life, but using a public forum (Facebook) to vent and process everything going on hasn't really helped her, in my opinion. Trying to follow some of her posts today was...interesting.
I hadn't been keeping up with it today so I missed most of that, but it's definitely tough. After all of the emotions of the last week, to have it go down that way has to be crushing.

Allan Mount posted some videos relaying the story from his wife Kattie (a believing member) and it sounds like the church was ready to send them packing, so I don't blame Natasha for being angry although to your point it's always more effective when you return their fire with calm.

What a mess.

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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Just This Guy » Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:23 pm

Announced on the Mormon Stories Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/natashahelferm ... 991494346/

Netasha has been ex'ed. Turns out the "rescheduling" was really a trial in absentia.

How classy of them... :roll:
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Reuben » Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:36 pm

Paragraph 4 is amazing. Summary: "We value diversity of opinion in matters of doctrine and belief, as long as you keep it to yourself." Really? Then how does that diversity actually function, idiots?

It's 1984-level doublethink.
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Not Buying It » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:14 am

Mormorrisey wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:28 pm
So everyone is busy tonight, and I decided to just try to sneak in a glance at the vigil for Natasha to see what was going on. Apparently, Natasha's computer wasn't working properly, so she wanted to use her phone to access her notes. They were so worried that she would record the council, they demanded she hand over her phone to them - she refused, and so the council was cancelled. And apparently they were so worried about the vigil people that cops were called, and three cop cars were on the scene. It was at that point that John Dehlin shut off the live stream.

Unbelievable. They made her travel all that way, and then cancelled because Natasha had the balls not to play the game their way. This is getting even more pathetic, with their control games.
Who's surprised? They want to be able to bully people, but still be seen as good guys. The last thing the Church wants is their attempts to strong arm people in private.

In the unlikely event I am ever called to a Church court, I am bringing two phones, one I surrender and one I use to record. And I will share the recording with anyone I can get to listen to it. They have no right to expect they can bully people around behind closed doors and never get called on it, and after all the deception I've received at the Church's hands I would never lose a second of sleep about tricking them with a second phone.

They'll play dirty with you. Play dirty with them.
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by moksha » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:41 am

Reuben wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:36 pm
Paragraph 4 is amazing. Summary: "We value diversity of opinion in matters of doctrine and belief, as long as you keep it to yourself."
I think of it as a warning: "Suffer in silence or else".
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Rob4Hope » Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:14 am

Just heard the podcast from RBM and Reel.

Netasha has been excommunicated.

After they dismissed her, the continued with the court and the decision was made.

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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Just This Guy » Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:57 pm

blazerb wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:37 pm
Just This Guy wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:32 pm
I'm wonder if they tried to work with her at all. She said the reason for her phone was because she needed her notes off it because her printer wouldn't work earlier that day. If the stake were reasonable, they could offer to let her e-mail those notes to the Exec Sec who could then easily print off a copy for her. She gets her notes and they get their control and "privacy."

If they didn't offer, then the stake were fools for missing a very simple way of de-escalating the situation. If they did offer and she declined, then it is more reasonable that she was in fact trying to secretly record it and she would be in the wrong.

That being said, using a cell phone to record in such a situation is kind of a joke. There are other methods of recording that don't involve a cell. At a minimal, use a 2nd phone. Offer the first as a show and then don't tell them about the 2nd that is the real recorder.

Wasn't the recording of Bill Reel's kangaroo court done by a high councilman? It's not the victim they need to be watching. It's everyone else.
If I understood the video from Mormon Stories correctly, she said that they did make the offer. She declined for two reasons. First, they were imposing rules that were not set out beforehand. Second, her notes had information for herself and no one else had a right to see them. I believe she was sincere, but I'm a trusting sort. As you point out, if she wanted to record, it would have been easy enough to sneak another device into the room.
According to Bill Reel and RFM, they did not give her conditions beforehand like they did with Bill Reel. They imposed it once she showed up. So I ill amend my position. Failing to inform her before hand and then expecting her to agree to conditions she was never told about, yeah, she had a right to take a phone in because they didn't tell her not to.

The way the whole thing was handles is really odd. Almost anything that the church could do to make it look bad they did. You would think that if the church were to give them orders to ex her, they would give them some coaching on how not to turn the whole thing into a media embarrassment. Of course when you give your leadership zero training on anything, what would you expect?
Image
Listening to Mormonism Live, I do find it interesting that Bill alluded to he arranged for someone else to record the audio so it could be leaked.
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Re: Did Netasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by moksha » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:09 pm

For future excommunications of this sort, HQ should just hold a short press conference and announce it. Spare the participants the bother and expense of these mock in absentia proceedings.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
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Re: Did Natasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by Just This Guy » Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:40 am

I have seen that Natasha has sent in an appeal letter to the 1st presidency.

I am having trouble finding the actual letter she sent. It was posted on Facebook, but I'm having trouble finding a link. This summary is the closest I have found:
https://religionnews.com/2021/04/22/mor ... nt-to-win/

At first, My thoughts were why someone would put themselves through this again when you know the outcome. Who in their right mid would want to go back to such an abusive church? She later made a statement that the reason was not about trying get her membership back, but was doing it to force upper leadership to acknowledge one way or the other how badly it was handled and how it does not meet church policy. So I will give her credit on that one. It takes guts to call them out like this. I wish her luck. It will be interesting to see how the church lawyers try to weasel their way out of this one.
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Re: Did Natasha Helfer get Exed?

Post by Fifi de la Vergne » Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:56 am

Jody England Hansen recounts her experience as one of Helfer's witnesses:

https://www.the-exponent.com/here-is-my-witness/

It's unreal how threatened these men with all their priesthood power were by a group of women in Sunday dress. I am finding myself more angered by this episode than I have been by any of the other excommunications that have taken place since I stopped believing six years ago.
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Re: Did Natasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by wtfluff » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:39 am

Does anyone have any information why Natasha was EXed at the stake level?

Aren't women usually taken care of at the ward level by a bishop?
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Re: Did Natasha Helfer-Parker get Exed?

Post by dogbite » Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:11 am

Once you're endowed, the Stake Pres has jurisdiction. This was rolled out a few handbooks ago.

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